Prose from a Poshboy

[ruud]

For all the excellent skills  and collective intelligence you guys have I still find it amazing that you think that having 2 or more of you on the same table is ever gonna be profitable enough to be able to make a living. It's widely accepted what the percentage of winning players is. There are cash games running in every city and town 5 nights a week but if 3 or 4 of you guys turned up to them they would all die within a short time.

Each game has its 1 or possibly 2 winning players, business men who are  happy doing a few quid in, dodgy money who ain't bothered because he has another brown envelope coming through his letter box and the rest are recreational players with jobs and then of course the casino/dealers who never have a rake/tips losing night.

Your business whales are far too intelligent to lose 5 nights a week to you guys and those degen enough chose to play in regular casinos as does the dodgy money. It's very hard to attract these guys away from their regular games and casinos so you must go looking for them.

When you have attracted these types at the cash games at Dtd you have ( not just you Alex but others too) have posted stuff on here like I am looking forward to the XXXX lads coming down again this weekend. It comes across as arrogant and you may as well have written I can't wait to fleece these losers. Even the post about your jolly to the Vic comes across badly to me. You have turned up to Vic at a game that they made you welcome in, not the other way round, and ended up heads with the fish. I don't blame you at all for this as its dog eat dog but do this every night in your reg game you become pretty unpopular and the Vic regs would soon turn on you. A little bit like the time the others turned on you for taking that lad off to play h/u at Dtd. Not only did your mates get the hump he got upset at the posting on here. There is a massive difference between saying you are looking after your game and actually doing it.

As for the cash game being televised it sounds great in theory but once again the attractiveness of playing it will be diminished as it will be Team Eureka dominated. A lot of people see it as just an opportunity to massage your ego.

I know you lads ain't got a bad bone in your bodies but sometimes you need to think out things a little bit more. All the trolls you attract are down to pure jealouscy and they are just looking for opportunities to knock you down or see you mess up.

Don't let em get you down.

Brilliant post Jase

[Woodsey]

Im pretty much the the only reg that has played the £1/2+ games without hiatus's since DTD opened. During this time ive seen the games demise from 3 tables every night, and 5 or 6 at weekends, to 1 table if were lucky.

As the years have gone by, the amount of new players being introduced into the game has dropped massively. The bad players lost all there money and got fed up, the others decided to move down stakes and try and improve for cheaper, or in some cases, seemingly stop playing all together. The rate in which some of the guys coming into the game were losing was never going to be sustainable, and as Dubai said, there just doesn't seem to be the influx of local businessmen looking to drop a few quid in the games, like there is in London for example. Maybe there is, and they're put off by it being 'only a 1/2' without realising that you could win or lose substantial money in these games quite easily... but to be honest i don't think its that at all, they're probably just not about.

One thing that is for sure, is that players aren't being put off by the bad etiquette or behaviour of the players who regularly play in these games. In all the hours i've spend in the card room, i could count the amount of times ive seen somebody get a bit out of line to new players on one hand, and anyway, Alex has changed now  

I was having a pretty long discussion with Neil Channing about this subject last time i was in London, and he mentioned having the same problems at the Vic. The games are just so much harder to get going than they used to be, and hes got a such a larger player pool and people with more disposable income to work with.

One thing he mentioned, which deffinatley doesn't happen at DTD, is the London regs refusal to play short handed with each other, or their willingness to start a game without a huge fish in it. Maybe that's our problem. We had a meeting with Rob and Simon a while ago to swap ideas about how to get the games going again, and they thought us coming in earlier to get things started might help, so we did, and often sat in a line up with absolutely no value in. But that didn't work, because nobody would join when it was just us anyway so we were wasting our time.

With regards to the whole 'cliquey' thing, i can deffinatley see how it could be perceived. There has been times we've all swanned in together after having been to Nandos, all walk up the ramp together carrying thousands of pounds, laughing and joking then sitting at a table together. If I was to put myself in a new players shoes there, i probably wold be reluctant to sit in the game too. Thats probably all were guilty of to be honest. Anytime a new player joins the game they're pretty much immediately involved in conversation, banter etc. At the end of the day weve all got to know each other pretty well over the hours on end sat at the table with each other, and through off the table stuff, so there's gonna be times an 'in joke' pops up, or were refering to something that happened that some people wouldn't understand, but that could happen anywhere, its just the way it is. In my opinion its just a fact that were all just really good mates. There are so many people who i have met through poker who i would never have even had chance to speak to otherwise, from all walks of lifes, backgrounds, ages etc. After all, poker is a social activity, if the worst thing anyone can hold against us is that were too friendly, then we havent got too much to worry about!

I'm pretty short on ideas of how were gonna be able to change things to get old players back. They all seem to be decided now, the games are 'too big' , 'too many good players', 'too cliquey'etc etc, it feel like its probably gone too far, and the only way it might start again is the regs stopped coming in for a few months. Most of us are only in during weekends now anyway, so it would be interesting to see if games ever ran without any of us there, tbh i doubt they would anyway.

Weve given Tom (cash game manager) some ideas that might kick start things again, and i know hes very keen and has lots of thoughts of his own, so hopefully we will see some of these being put into practice in the very near future before everybody goes and plays that computer-webz poker full time. #boring.

I feel like ive rambled on a bit here without really getting across what i wanted to say, but thought id just add something to the discussion. Dont have the mad skills of Stu or Phil at putting my point across well in text!

You swan in together carrying thousands of pounds and still eat at Nando's FFS?  

[cambridgealex]

@Killerkilsby, can you  please pm me who you think it was.

[smashedagain]

@Killerkilsby, can you  please pm me who you think it was.

not sure it was team Eureka. Just says Dtd regs

[cambridgealex]

@Jason, you used to say that when you first started "how can you guys all win when you play together?", over and over again! And now again - well the proof is there, although the games might've died, it's not like some of the regs have gone broke - we've all made a very decent wage from these games.

The fact is, (forgive the crude analogy)the sharks don't go hungry if the fish is big enough.

@Killerkilsby, can you  please pm me who you think it was.

not sure it was team Eureka. Just says Dtd regs

Well I'm fucking sure it wasn't and the insuation and implication that it was is extremely serious.

[smashedagain]

I don't mean to upset you but if your cash game has died then you have to ask why. Killing the golden goose is a cardinal sin and there are very few geese that will give 3 wages a week to you guys over any sustainable period.

As for the cheating in Leicester then the guys who play down there must be pretty soft in the head. Why would you let someone get away with cheating unless  you are soft in the head

[nirvana]

TBF, for all the fine words from a theoretical perspective. I don't really know what the better regs could've done that would have a discernible effect over time. It's fine saying don't kill the goose, and conceptually I get it, but it has no practical merit - precisely how do you apply it in a kill game like poker ? And there's only so much 'nice' one can take when you're having your pockets emptied.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of people would've enjoyed their company, the game & the challenge. But, eventually, people have to do a reckoning and if they are sensible or not quite minted they could quite easily decide, it's been fun but it's just a bit too pricey for me.

[smashedagain]

The guys that were keeping the Dtd game a float are still playing. Just not at Dtd now. They are still blowing chunks but say that at last they are saving £20 petrol money

[cambridgealex]

The guys that were keeping the Dtd game a float are still playing. Just not at Dtd now. They are still blowing chunks but say that at last they are saving £20 petrol money

Sorry but you're talking bollocks Jase.

If I had a pound for everytime I heard that...

[robyong]

the answer to this from the Player AND DTD's point of view is;

1. Change the game to £2-£5 with 1 straddle, stop trying to disguise the game as £1-£2  to and attract/bust local recreational players

2. The 6  or so regs need to committ to creating, nuturing and building the game (AKA Honeybadger comments),playing in a tougher line up initially but creating the liquidity for the game to grow

3. Players WILL travel for a regular £2-£5 game, and this bankroll of player is not scared of playing young hot shot players - but they wont travel for a "£1-£2", its percieved as too small to travel (even tho its not) - there are enuf players to sustain this game every night at DTD within the Midlands, but it needs some legwork

4. This game is easily buildable to 5 nights a week at DTD on a +1 straddle max, me and Keith will always wander in from time to time and sit in the game and give some action.

It's that simple, but it takes the regular players to build the game with a tough line up at first, so travelling players know there is a game. THAT is my biggest critism of some of the DTD Regs, that they are too concerned with their +EV against the line up, yet they want players to sit and play with them who have -VE

YES, these lads are decent players but they are not scaring the likes of Tim Blake, James Keys, Ben Vincent, Pat, Will Fry, Stuart Barnett, Lee Mcmillan, Florian, Ian Gasc, Terry, Paul Grum etc etc etc these players need to know there is gonna be a regular game when they get in the car  and that the game doesn't break as soon as there are no 'fish' at the table.

These are a really good bunch of lads, there is zero collusion/softplay, they will beat eachother to a pulp at the poker table and anyone who suggest that is wrong, BUT they only want to play when the game is 'good' for them. eg. one thing that annoyed me was that I sat down to give them a bit of action- but while I was away from the table sorting some crap out, the 'lads' had a group discussion about whether to stay at DTD or go to play at Leicester Gala. They agreed it would depend on how "I was playing", ie. if I was 'throwing it around' as sometimes do - it was worth staying, but if I was playing okay, they would leave DTD and go to play cash at Gala Leciester. That pissed me off and I've not bothered giving them any action since. The dealer came to see me to tell me the full conversation that had gone on and really, I would hope to have a bit more loyalty from my regs who have been earning their living at the club - to sod off Gala Leicester just because I dont play like a maniac seemed a bit harsh to me and is not good for the club, and well, to say in front of the dealer, probabaly highlights that they dont know that they were saying anything wrong, which I think is the case for many of the critisms on here, the lads just are just trying to earn the maximum living from poker, so I can see both sides.

Saying that, I know they are a good bunch of lads with their hearts in the right place and think some of the comments are a little harsh I feel. Here are a few observations;

1. If a losing player asks for round of each, maybe play it, even if omaha is not your strongest game
2. Don't film hands at the table (Nick is well mad about that)
3. Dont refer to people as 'The Fish called', use 'Villian' if you want to blog it
4. Never post your total winnings up, or put nice winning graphs up, losing players also read forums
5.Do not do the hollywood river raise on a non pro player!

Cheers Rob

[JamesBee]

Was pretty sure i was never going to bother posting on Blonde again, and am very sure this will be the last time

If you guys do not want anyone outside ur cosy group to comment or have an opinion, do not post on a public forum , either open a facebook page or just text/skype or call each other

I have read Blonde on and off for a number of years without posting and obv have made opinions about some of the posters  , some i know who they are and many i don't, the format of the forum is not that you have to 'make ur self known' and as i am a private person in life generally i don't feel the need to do so
this works both ways as i also don't come on here looking for congratulations each time i win a comp/pot, each to their own, I have been portrayed as a 'troll' because maybe my views are not what certain people want to hear
George2loose said he sounded like a pussy and i agreed with him , so he has now decided my views hold no water as he (whoever he is) does not know me, strannge seeing as my post has pretty much been agreed with by many on here

The next time a unknown poster gives you kudos please demand who they are before you accept their good will
No one enjoys criticism but as stated before ,grow up and take it on the chin,some of the things that go on such as slating peoples play and filming youtube clips at the table are not good/nice traits
as i say you chose to post on a public platform for reasons of ur own, many people do not need the attention others thrive for , this though does not make their opinions invalid
good luck and good bye

[Woodsey]

Or us fish could just ask DTD to set up a 1/2 game that is free of the regs 

[smashedagain]

The guys that were keeping the Dtd game a float are still playing. Just not at Dtd now. They are still blowing chunks but say that at last they are saving £20 petrol money

Sorry but you're talking bollocks Jase.

If I had a pound for everytime I heard that...

lol. 100% its true Alex. People just won't come and play at Dtd because of this sort of attitude. Not that many people make their living from playing live cash games but historically those that have are prepared to travel if their local game goes tits up. I always use George W as an example but even lildave is crossing the Pennines to play in live games that have the same guys sustaining them that have for years. You never hear bad words  about these guys and they just keep giq and paying the bills.


Rob makes some good points but whilst you have people with the perceptions they have and some being brave enough to air their views then the cash game at Dtd ain't ever gonna build up. These people will just stay away and play in Reileys or down the pub.

[WotRTheChances]

Was pretty sure i was never going to bother posting on Blonde again, and am very sure this will be the last time

If you guys do not want anyone outside ur cosy group to comment or have an opinion, do not post on a public forum , either open a facebook page or just text/skype or call each other

I have read Blonde on and off for a number of years without posting and obv have made opinions about some of the posters  , some i know who they are and many i don't, the format of the forum is not that you have to 'make ur self known' and as i am a private person in life generally i don't feel the need to do so
this works both ways as i also don't come on here looking for congratulations each time i win a comp/pot, each to their own, I have been portrayed as a 'troll' because maybe my views are not what certain people want to hear
George2loose said he sounded like a pussy and i agreed with him , so he has now decided my views hold no water as he (whoever he is) does not know me, strannge seeing as my post has pretty much been agreed with by many on here

The next time a unknown poster gives you kudos please demand who they are before you accept their good will
No one enjoys criticism but as stated before ,grow up and take it on the chin,some of the things that go on such as slating peoples play and filming youtube clips at the table are not good/nice traits
as i say you chose to post on a public platform for reasons of ur own, many people do not need the attention others thrive for , this though does not make their opinions invalid
good luck and good bye

Many of the people calling themselves Profiessional poker players at the age of 21 etc should really learn from the guys who have been quietly going about their business for many years adjusting and working the games as they have changed,The problem with the games at DTD are no different to games anywhere and in fact Alex and his crew have the best facillities this country has ever offered to work within and around

from what i have gathered the big game at DTD is far too cliquey and the players are coming across too arrogant within there own group , with the help of Blonde they have believed their own hype a little too much, I played a few times last year and found the banter very focused only on the group and as for PJS hollywood dwells on nearly every hand , anything but professional 
in short
Stop blaming DTD and look at yourselves, and lets seehow many of you are still 'doing it'in 10 years time

Anyone who posts the bullshit you posted above (regardless of if you are named or anon) will not go down well with me. There is a ridiculously negative tone to the post including some ill-informed information and some blatent lies (alongside some valid points). I welcome any new poster, but anyone who comes on immediately slating people and coming out with personal attacks on people they dont know, will be defended if I feel it is unjust.

You come across as very bitter/jealous.

[smashedagain]

Get a dining table