Prose from a Poshboy

[tikay]

Rubbish post dave, completely FOS and i think you're completely wrong and OOL. GTFO

Tikay rescue us please...

No can do.

The posts by Rob, Ian, LilDave, Stu, Alex, Phil, Mitch are all spot on.

This may have been a great day for many on blonde.

A little bit of respect for other players goes a long way.

[skolsuper]

I agree with lildave and Dubai that this is mainly cyclical, but would add that I think the problem is probably exacerbated at the minute by the prevalence of staking amongst this particular friendship group, which elevates good players from levels below at an accelerated rate and also prevents other good players from dropping out of these games when they fall foul of a downswing, meaning that the lineup is artificially tougher than it would in a poker ecosystem where players' bankrolls go up and down mostly by chance.

I mostly disagree with Stu's initial contention that the atmosphere is the key, if it really were the main factor in the health of a game then there would be almost no games at all in the Vic, but given there's nothing anyone can do about the state of the wider economy in the midlands then it probably is worth spending a bit of time on the things you can change, however incidental they may be.

While there is nothing you can do about the global economy, in the long term the game will return to equilibrium if all the players act in their own best economic interests, i.e. the 2nd-tier regs go elsewhere to find a better hourly. Given time, the slightly softer game will pick up momentum as 'customers' are more likely to return and the ecosystem will recover. After a while there may be enough fat for the 2nd-tier regs to return, but it's possible there just isn't enough demand in the midlands at the minute to support this number of 200nl professionals. A possible problem with this is that if the departure of the 2nd tier regs takes the games below a critical mass threshold, they could just stop running altogether.

If this is the case, and I think it very likely is, then another option is the one Rob mentioned, get the top-tier 1/2 players need to step out of their comfort zone up to 2/5 as their main game. This would cast the net a bit wider geographically and would bring more players into the club, whilst also helping the 1/2 games to recover. Overall the effect will be to create a larger ecosystem that could support more professional players. However, it'd take a few people to make the leap of faith that these 2/5 games will appear and will attract the players Rob says it will. As far as I can tell, at the minute Tom only has the numbers of people who are already regulars in the club, so I think Rob needs to share his phonebook with Tom to get the new blood into the club and populating the 2/5-5/10 games, because the same faces who are playing 1/2 don't really just want to up the stakes* they're playing for however long it takes for word of mouth to bring in new players.

My recommendation would be, once Tom has those phone numbers, invite A LOT of people on the same day, run 2 tables if possible with a must-move, then allow them to go to 1 table 10 handed so the game isn't as vulnerable to breaking (most amateurs don't like to play short-handed, with good reason as they will lose faster). Keep doing this for several weeks until it sticks, then try to add another day. There are people out there who would play 2/5 every night of the week if they could, if you could find 20 of those who were all sure that there would be a game in DTD if they dropped in unannounced, you would have a working ecosystem with likely 8-10 players every night. So long as you don't rake it to death (which I think you currently do btw), it will sustain itself with a minimum of effort to uplift* players from 1/2 and reactivate any players who stop turning up for whatever reason.

*uplifting players from 1/2 will be borderline impossible under the current rake structure, where 2/5 is a lot more expensive than 1/2 in terms of rake, with higher variance and a tougher lineup, nobody making a living from 1/2 is going to choose that. I would recommend moving the 2/5 game to session fees at a level where the game would break-even or turn a slight profit as another nudge to get those top-tier 1/2 players to make the step up.

Just my 2 cents, which I realise as a 2/5+ player myself might come across as selfish suggestions but really aren't, honest.

Cliffs: I think a regular 2/5 game would take the best players off 1/2 and allow those games to recover in health. Starting a 2/5 game would require an initial marketing push (probably free, will just take a bit of effort and use of Rob's connections) and sustaining it will take a lower rake structure. The alternative is to leave things as they are until the 2nd tier regs leave the 1/2 games for greener pastures and they recover naturally over time. This does run the risk of the games dying completely for a while.

[tikay]

^^^

Superb summation.

[cambridgealex]

Yes great post James.

I'll have a word with some of the 2nd tier regs and see what they think

[edgascoigne]

Wait.

My dad isn't one of the games big winners?? Dad, I do hope this isn't going to be like that time in 2008 when you told me Father Christmas isn't real...

[cambridgealex]

Wait.

My dad isn't one of the games big winners?? Dad, I do hope this isn't going to be like that time in 2008 when you told me Father Christmas isn't real...

pmsl. love you guys - please come to riga!

[Tal]

On the subject of Riga, a friend of mine had his Stag do out there. As with any city, you have to be careful where you go and who you offend, but there's a bit of a NeoNazi issue in certain quarters, as he and his group found to their cost, following a nightclub incident. A group of squaddie types set upon them and put my friend in hospital. His wedding photo has him in sunglasses and, as you can imagine, his marriage started with him being a few brownie points in the hole!

I'm sure you and your group will be fine, but it's something I'd offer up as a bit of "just so you know". You're a much more experienced traveller than I, of course.

[leethefish]

Wait.

My dad isn't one of the games big winners?? Dad, I do hope this isn't going to be like that time in 2008 when you told me Father Christmas isn't real...

[cambridgealex]

On the subject of Riga, a friend of mine had his Stag do out there. As with any city, you have to be careful where you go and who you offend, but there's a bit of a NeoNazi issue in certain quarters, as he and his group found to their cost, following a nightclub incident. A group of squaddie types set upon them and put my friend in hospital. His wedding photo has him in sunglasses and, as you can imagine, his marriage started with him being a few brownie points in the hole!

I'm sure you and your group will be fine, but it's something I'd offer up as a bit of "just so you know". You're a much more experienced traveller than I, of course.

Thanks, Tal. Not the first I've heard of the dangers of Riga actually unfortunately. We'll be extra careful and just stay in certain clubs I think...

[CHIPPYMAN]

On the subject of Riga, a friend of mine had his Stag do out there. As with any city, you have to be careful where you go and who you offend, but there's a bit of a NeoNazi issue in certain quarters, as he and his group found to their cost, following a nightclub incident. A group of squaddie types set upon them and put my friend in hospital. His wedding photo has him in sunglasses and, as you can imagine, his marriage started with him being a few brownie points in the hole!

I'm sure you and your group will be fine, but it's something I'd offer up as a bit of "just so you know". You're a much more experienced traveller than I, of course.
[/quote

I will take the advise & take KURT with u all.
Safety measure . Lol

[cambridgealex]

scotty77, cambridgealex, SuuPRlim, Tom_W, Honeybadger, Rod, dan.muddi, Gazza, PeeJay (+ 4 Hidden) and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Word count over/under on Honeybadger's next post itt anyone?

[tikay]

scotty77, cambridgealex, SuuPRlim, Tom_W, Honeybadger, Rod, dan.muddi, Gazza, PeeJay (+ 4 Hidden) and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Word count over/under on Honeybadger's next post itt anyone?

Over 900.

[SuuPRlim]

Im with him atm and we're about to order food so you're all safe for the moment :-P

[cambridgealex]

scotty77, cambridgealex, SuuPRlim, Tom_W, Honeybadger, Rod, dan.muddi, Gazza, PeeJay (+ 4 Hidden) and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Word count over/under on Honeybadger's next post itt anyone?

Over 900.

OK under. 50p?

[Pyso]

Just thought I’d give my two-pence here; you may be interested , you may not, but I feel my points are relevant because I am someone who used to be a regular and regardless will actively now avoid the £1/£2 games at DTD if I do play at all.

First and foremost the games are just not as advertised. As soon as you allow a straddle and have no buy-in cap, then you no longer have what you started with. Most people aren’t that keen on anything once they discover they haven't purchased what they'd imagined.

I suspect I’m like many of the regulars at DTD, I play for a number of reasons -  I play to win money (which I do, maybe not as much as the pros but I do win, something that 'pros' can't seem to believe - that a part-timer can still be competent and profitable), I play for the banter and I like the freedom the game offers with regards to everything being down to personal choice, and mainly I play to spend a few hours away from the grind of everyday life. I know it’s a bit anti-social, but if I’m feeling blue about something it’s nice to spend a few hours at the table quietly soaking up all the action and even listening to the Ipod if I’m super grumpy.

What I don’t want to do is to sit down as the outsider along with a group of unintentionally cliquey mates, who are all on first name terms with every dealer and who all know each others’ win rates and VPIP stats.

It’s not the only reason I don’t play £1/£2 at DTD, there are others such as having a family to think about and not being paid well enough in my shitty job to sit down on the back of a realistic bankroll, but truly the fact that the game just isn’t what it set out to be, and that the game is just a subtle cock measuring contest, is just as off-putting.

I don’t think Alex and his cohorts are necessarily to blame here, perhaps on occasion they have done or said something that on reflection they shouldn’t have, but such is life, maybe one issue is with venues not changing the format despite some feedback recommending that they do so.

Also, the rake doesn’t help - it is very high. I understand why, card rooms have to make money after all, but with the games now getting super tough (who saw that coming with poker pros revealing all in ego-stroking books, and affordable training websites?!!) and everyone struggling to fill the car with petrol, is it any wonder that the numbers have dwindled?

For a while DTD was the only place to play - the fact that it was (and is) so superb was almost irrelevant. Now other casinos have caught on and it has some competition. Maybe we have to come to the uncomfortable realisation that saturation point has been reached.

The only way I can see the games coming back is threefold; firstly for the USA to change their stance regarding online poker because a second online boom could precede a second live boom, secondly for the clubs to actually offer what the players need (not what they think they want) and finally for the recession to ease.

I’m not sure which of these will happen first, or if at all.