Prose from a Poshboy

[titaniumbean]

he's not c/ring to c/rF. nor is he c/r calling to c/f the turn so def think it's best to check it back once we 3b. obv c/f flop as we're going to brick.

[Honeybadger]

Don't know who this John Spinks guy is. But he's played his hand very badly IMO.

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=94122

He's still played his hand bad. If JB had posted this hand everyone would be telling him off:

I c/r Q8 hoping he'd 3bet - since he can only have a draw when he does that, and thus I am crushing him. He did 3bet as I expected... so I called to trap, knowing he'd jam all blank turns with his obvious draw. Turn was the intended blank. I checked, slightly concerned that he'd smell a rat and check-back. But to my delight he jammed and I beat him into the pot with my Q8, whilst exclaiming "See, I am the sickest mofo in the room!"

I mean if John Spinks had some sort of ninja soul-read (or had glimpsed Alex's cards lol) then fine. But if he was just 'playing vs Alex's range' as he insinuated in the paraphrased reasoning that Alex said he gave, then he has massacred his hand and got lucky.

[redsimon]

Don't know who this John Spinks guy is. But he's played his hand very badly IMO.

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=94122

He's still played his hand bad. If JB had posted this hand everyone would be telling him off:

I c/r Q8 hoping he'd 3bet - since he can only have a draw when he does that, and thus I am crushing him. He did 3bet as I expected... so I called to trap, knowing he'd jam all blank turns with his obvious draw. Turn was the intended blank. I checked, slightly concerned that he'd smell a rat and check-back. But to my delight he jammed and I beat him into the pot with my Q8, whilst exclaiming "See, I am the sickest mofo in the room!"

I mean if John Spinks had some sort of ninja soul-read (or had glimpsed Alex's cards lol) then fine. But if he was just 'playing vs Alex's range' as he insinuated in the paraphrased reasoning that Alex said he gave, then he has massacred his hand and got lucky.

Not denying that Stu! Just put his herbiemob up with no comment

imho Alex played it fine.

[titaniumbean]

yeh pretty sure spinks long ago stopped caring about 2 card pokies

[Honeybadger]

Not denying that Stu! Just put his herbiemob up with no comment

imho Alex played it fine.

Yeah I know lol!

Didn't mean my post to come out quite like it did

[pleno1]

if he had saw alex's hand he wouldnt c/r, DUCY?

[Honeybadger]

if he had saw alex's hand he wouldnt c/r, DUCY?

Lol. You know the general point I was making though, right?

[wazz]

I can see your point Stu but Spinks is one of the last people I'd question in this game, he's seriously top-class. If he's taking an unorthodox line I'm sure he's got very good reasons.

[SuuPRlim]

from my experience with Alex I think alex WOULD 3b the flop with AQ/KK/AA, maybe even KQ given PF action, I can guess at Spinks' logic here, having no experience really with Alex he's prolly bracketed him in the "generic newer player" group, who always level themselves and make fancy plays but usually under-play their value ranges, he's decided to go with his Q8 and has focused the hand on the best way possible to exploit Alex's weaker hands and bluffs "if he has a better hand, sobeit - but lets really try and get those weaker hands to put money in" logic - I think this is abso fine (it's thin though) on his part, however he's made a mistake here in slightly under-estimating Alex, who has more experience and is way less prone to FPS stuff then he has expected, or he used to 18months back.

If Spinks had more experience playing with Alex I am very sure he wouldn't play his hand like this, with the assumptions he's made he's played the hand good, but he's made some incorrect assumptions here and actually has run pretty well to win this hand.

You did not butcher the hand Alex, although I would not have jammed the turn, the fact that you jammed the turn with JTspades here does vindicate his call flop, chk/call turn line - jamming for value and taking the free card with your big draws would have been the way to exploit his mistakes in this hand.

[pleno1]

Well it depends a lot on positions if it's ep v bb then it's obv different to if it's bb v bb or lp v bb which it's likely to be given the hand. It's a pretty underused play IMO and works well vs done guys. A lot will b/call ace high or ANY pair on thi board but always check Turb an prolly fold most rivers. If the board pairs ott we usually even get another street of value.

 Did he have the ?

[cambridgealex]

was co vs bb, did not have iirc.

we've actually played loads online together, but he didn't know it.

[SuuPRlim]

we've actually played loads online together, but he didn't know it.

very much the same thing as not playing lol

[cambridgealex]

lol, he knew he was winning

PokerStars Hand #99461882817: Tournament #807020025, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (300/600) - 2013/06/02 16:18:47 WET [2013/06/02 11:18:47 ET]
Table '807020025 57' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: snowbli (5370 in chips)
Seat 2: $€PPI (52784 in chips)
Seat 3: 20alex430 (23866 in chips)
Seat 4: Bite Da Bait (14826 in chips)
Seat 5: uaredead lol (23275 in chips)
Seat 6: RotoBronco (17448 in chips)
Seat 7: jinji men (10291 in chips)
Seat 8: Konstanti282 (19888 in chips)
Seat 9: Waldo Joe (18441 in chips)
snowbli: posts the ante 60
$€PPI: posts the ante 60
20alex430: posts the ante 60
Bite Da Bait: posts the ante 60
uaredead lol: posts the ante 60
RotoBronco: posts the ante 60
jinji men: posts the ante 60
Konstanti282: posts the ante 60
Waldo Joe: posts the ante 60
20alex430: posts small blind 300
Bite Da Bait: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 20alex430 [As ]
uaredead lol: raises 600 to 1200
RotoBronco: calls 1200
jinji men: folds
Konstanti282: folds
Waldo Joe: calls 1200
snowbli: folds
$€PPI: folds
20alex430: raises 4555 to 5755
Bite Da Bait: folds
uaredead lol: folds
RotoBronco: calls 4555
Waldo Joe: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
20alex430: bets 18051 and is all-in
RotoBronco: calls 11633 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (6418) returned to 20alex430
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
20alex430: shows [As ] (a flush, Ace high)
RotoBronco: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Fours)
20alex430 collected 38316 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 38316 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: snowbli folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: $€PPI (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 20alex430 (small blind) showed [As ] and won (38316) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: Bite Da Bait (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: uaredead lol folded before Flop
Seat 6: RotoBronco showed [ ] and lost with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 7: jinji men folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Konstanti282 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Waldo Joe folded before Flop

[Honeybadger]

I can see your point Stu but Spinks is one of the last people I'd question in this game, he's seriously top-class. If he's taking an unorthodox line I'm sure he's got very good reasons.

Top class players make bad plays too sometimes. Conversely, bad players like me made top class play sometimes.

That said, it seems from later comments that I might have got the preflop action wrong. I was under the impression that Alex had 3bet IP and Spinks had called with the Q8 out of position. And then c/r the flop. Did I just get the preflop action wrong?

[cambridgealex]

yes i just opened CO to 1300 at 300/600/75 playing 32k and he peeled the bb covering me.