Ruling in DTD Grand Prix.

[outragous76]

titb

do you not think the OP was angle shooting or trying to gain an edge?

[millidonk]

Lol, I guess i'm glad i'm not after love or sympathy.. I whole heartedly agree with the ruling and i sincerely hope the ruling gets enforced throughout every tournament. I can guarantee you If i see it happen at a table now in there and it is not correctly dealt with by the dealer or then the TD, then I will have to escalate it higher.  

A further point, mainly for Titbeam as you were stood behind me. What did you think of the guy's reaction stood behind the dealer? he is one of the top boys in there. Obv no names to be mentioned. He was giving it all  "I should know better, almost calling me a disgrace" etc etc I thought it was a bit OTT tbh.  As stated above how would i know better if I had never been penalised previously in there!?? I won't ever find myself doing it in there again anyways and i guess I'm glad i got a peno as I found myself struggling to remain polite to a guy who was trying to call me out. To answer your question all were in tournaments.

Another point which I was thinking about yesterday: I was sat next to someone in a tournament who liked to pick both their cards up fully on the side, then squeeze them out, this lead to me being able to see the whole of at least one card every time they were dealt a hand, I didn't get involved as he was getting dealt sheer filth and folding the majority of hands. j/k I (stupidly??) said "mate, ya wanna watch how ya look at ya cards coz i can sometimes see em" (that's how i speak) he said thanks and didn't do it anymore.

 Which leads me to think:

Do you purposely look away?
Should you stay  quiet?
Should you tell them?

Anyone else been in this spot before? tell the truth now!

[titaniumbean]

titb

do you not think the OP was angle shooting or trying to gain an edge?

I think it's a completely different type of situation.

In that I don't mind someone trying to read me during a hand, and nor do I mind if they want to expose their hand.


I don't see that as the same as announcing 400k more than you have, or hiding your big chips on purpose, or dirtying your stack and refusing to count it or make it known that your stacks are set up to hide the amount of chips you have.

[outragous76]

not having a go, just wondered what you consider to be angle

fwiw - the guy didnt over claim his stack size in your case

they are both angles for me - just you seemed really against 1 but not the other

[Alverton]

I would say, shame on you for trying to pull cheap stunts like that to gain an advantage. If all players did stuff like that it would turn the game into a shambles and make it a nightmare for the dealers.

Agree with ruling but have absolutely no love for or sympathy with people who do this kind of stuff at the table tbh

Agreed. 

Anyone else been in this spot before? tell the truth now!

I have been in this spot, and I tell them straight away.

[gatso]

seeing the cards thing you tell them the first time, then if they do it again it's their problem

[titaniumbean]

I personally warn them once, twice and then the third time I make a point of filling in the whole world what he had and how he played it. If he takes offence I point out that i've told him more than twice that he's letting me see. From then on I just look and keep commenting until they stop pretty much.

People often go to look mid hand and if they are next to you sometimes you can see and I just physically flinch and cover my face and start chirping that they are been a mad man and trying to show me their hand. People usually cover them up after that. I personally just like for an even playing field and consistent rules; i'm very competitive and would take no pleasure in winning a pot because I knew someones hand.

I find myself sometimes being shown my opponent to my rights cards as they limp or do something silly, if I didn't know their cards i'd probably raise them but if i've seen their hand then I feel like i'm cheating and will most often just fold my hand and warn them.


RE Your hand I cant remember everything I saw, but I HATE when the dealer looks or is shown a hand, that's ridic and would tilt me.  I do remember that I didn't recognise you but thought you must be known to the floor or had rulings before because of the nature of the conversation.



Guy, he refused to say how much he had or count his stack down, when the dealer started to count them she was so confused at all these 500s that had magically been put in the salmon stack (you could barely differentiate the colour until there were out of the stack) [he also had a stack of 500's seperate]. So yes he didn't "overclaim" but he also did everything he could to give me the wrong impression and gain an advantage. (also remember that these 25k chips have just been brought into play, everyone has just a few and they were massive compared to the value of all other chips, i'm pretty sure the floor didn't get all his 500s and mix them together for fun, nor was he shuffling that stack for them to fall randomly into a layered pattern, it was a 100% angle and it came from a reg, he can gtfo).

is it ok to build a wall of small chips and hide my big chips ? that's fine right? there might be a big chips at the front rule but who cares unless someone rules that we need to put them to the front until then well just play on and see if any advantage is gained.

Why don't we get to showdown and I say I have quads, get you to muck and show the nut low, this is fine because hey why not do that, we're at showdown there are rules for that but who cares.



Do we play poker like football?  even if we know the ball went over the line if the ref doesn't call it it's not a problem?


edit if it's not obvious, my usual sports are golf/snooker etc where you call your own fouls.

[millidonk]

Haha TitB, I love that method, after a third time, tell the table what he had and how i played it. I Will keep that in mind for the future!

I know a couple of you are attempting to have little digs at my character which i find amusing, the fact is anyone who actually knows me within the poker community knows that I am an honest and genuine guy.

It is quite blatant I was trying to gain an 'edge', that is not in dispute. I felt I didn't have enough info to make the call at that particular moment. As it had never been penalised before It was fair to assume it was well within the legitimate house rules. I strongly believe that anything that results in a peno be deemed as cheating and be punished as so, Aslong as this is set in stone and there are no ambiguities. Like Cos said, you don't really get anymore information out of it anyway. Out of the 4 times I have done this, I have folded 3, called 1 and he had the nuts...gg wp.

Cheers for the input peeps, wasn't even expecting a reply. Much Love.

[titaniumbean]

Haha TitB, I love that method, after a third time, tell the table what he had and how i played it. I Will keep that in mind for the future!

I know a couple of you are attempting to have little digs at my character which i find amusing, the fact is anyone who actually knows me within the poker community knows that I am an honest and genuine guy.

It is quite blatant I was trying to gain an 'edge', that is not in dispute. I felt I didn't have enough info to make the call at that particular moment. As it had never been penalised before It was fair to assume it was well within the legitimate house rules. I strongly believe that anything that results in a peno be deemed as cheating and be punished as so, Aslong as this is set in stone and there are no ambiguities. Like Cos said, you don't really get anymore information out of it anyway. Out of the 4 times I have done this, I have folded 3, called 1 and he had the nuts...gg wp.

Cheers for the input peeps, wasn't even expecting a reply. Much Love.

I am primarily a cash donk and personally am used to the sort of 'as long as the table accepts it it's ok' kinda thing. Showing cards gives free info and doesn't necessarily get you anything in return. As long as the rulings are consistent I have no problems.

I really don't see someone exposing their cards as 'an angle' in the same way as what I was talking about. I would never be rude at the table unless I was really sure that someone was being scummy, the guy was being scummy hence I couldn't help but be outspoken. I'm sure that if some one had just come to the table and didn't know me or really see what had happened they would probably think that I am truly bang out of order young idiot for being rude/loud and rubbing someone down as I take them out of the comp. He fully 100% deserved it and I really REALLY enjoyed hitting the flop. Much fun.

[pokerfan]

Quick 1 while we have ruling specialists itt.

2 all in players show each other their hands while a 3rd player is tanking.

Any/what ruling if the 3rd player objects and calls a td over ?

[titaniumbean]

Quick 1 while we have ruling specialists itt.

2 all in players show each other their hands while a 3rd player is tanking.

Any/what ruling if the 3rd player objects and calls a td over ?

weird one, kick in the nuts (I really wish this was a rule) for both with potential penalties. I cant see the hands being declared dead though, that might be a house rule though.

[millidonk]

I am primarily a cash donk and personally am used to the sort of 'as long as the table accepts it it's ok' kinda thing. Showing cards gives free info and doesn't necessarily get you anything in return. As long as the rulings are consistent I have no problems.

I really don't see someone exposing their cards as 'an angle' in the same way as what I was talking about. I would never be rude at the table unless I was really sure that someone was being scummy, the guy was being scummy hence I couldn't help but be outspoken. I'm sure that if some one had just come to the table and didn't know me or really see what had happened they would probably think that I am truly bang out of order young idiot for being rude/loud and rubbing someone down as I take them out of the comp. He fully 100% deserved it and I really REALLY enjoyed hitting the flop. Much fun.

Yea, that can be good fun on the old cash tables. I like to try and get the table in showing 1 card every time you win a pot. I think that adds to the fun. But hardly anyone goes for it. The Villain in question had done a few things previous, He kept asking over n over again how much the bet was, bypassing the dealer and asking the player how much the bet was etc. In all honesty I wasn't sure if he was upto something or just dumb. You wasn't overly outspoken, you got your point across in a reasonably polite manner. Just made me laugh. Young idiot for being rude?? I defo wouldn't have classified you as young. I thought closer to 40 maybe..

Looking forward to our next encounter. I might get a hat - Your Face 'Angling MoFos GTFO'

From now on if there isn't a button on my poker software to do it, then i will take the action as illegal.

[EvilPie]

BTW  I called versus MR ANGLE, WE (THE WORLD OF NON SKANK NON ANGLING NICE PEOPLE) VS MR ANGLE.

Mr Angle holds a nine with a nine.

WE hold the  with an 


FIRST CARD 


GTFO YOU SKANK


(fwiw I've never ever acted like that to anyone when i've taken them out or even been in an all in spot, I just cant stand people who think that subtle cheating at showdown or when action is complete is acceptable)

You asked for a count?

You deserve to be angled you slow rolling mofo!!!

[millidonk]

Quick 1 while we have ruling specialists itt.

2 all in players show each other their hands while a 3rd player is tanking.

Any/what ruling if the 3rd player objects and calls a td over ?

Not being one who is king of the rules this seems a Super tricky spot. I can't see their hands being dead as they have already acted, with nothing else to be done. . Did this actually happen or is it a what if? if so what happened? I think. If 3rd player folds it goes to showdown. If he calls it goes to showdown. They get a 1 round peno either way. Not sure why either player would want to show each other.

[titaniumbean]

. Young idiot for being rude?? I defo wouldn't have classified you as young. I thought closer to 40 maybe..

Looking forward to our next encounter. I might get a hat - Your Face 'Angling MoFos GTFO'

From now on if there isn't a button on my poker software to do it, then i will take the action as illegal.

oi oi 40?! I look about 12! thanks. And for me i'm really not normally very vocal in any confrontational sense I just couldn't bite my tongue.


I dunno whether it'd be alright to get a hat made with his face on + some big and small chips mixed that might go too far, but new hats are always an option and you have now given me some ideas. Awesome!!!

That last line sums my thoughts up brilliantly!!