AK, rivers TP deep stacks in MTT value bet??

[Whollyflush]

Live MTT, reasonable players on this table with 4 scandi's and a couple of spots.

effective stacks 20kish

Young Scandi who's been beaten up a bit opens to 700 at 100/200, i pick up AK on the BB and elect to 3bet to 2050 (may be bad in mtt with these stacks/no antes? and he has 3 1/2 x'ed)

Flop

 
i bet 2250, scandi peels

Turn

  pot appox= 8500

I bet 4600 hoping to fold out 77/88/TT type hands and weak pair+ gutterballs that we can presume a young scandi has in his range, he calls fairly quickly.

River

  (18k approx pot)

Approx 12k back, is jamming standard in an MTT or are c/f- c/c more viable with these stacks in an mtt?

[GreekStein]

I like a jam

[SuuPRlim]

do you think he would he ever turn a hand like    /  into a bluff try get you off KK/QQ?

if so seems like a c/call might be best

[AlexMartin]

id flat pre. just c/f from the off on the flop against this opponent with your hand oop. or betbetjam.

river is without a doubt one of the best spots iv seen on this board in a long time.

[NigDawG]

i'd flat pre here but shoving river as played

[Spraggs]

flat pre.

chk call river 100%... jamming you should only ever get called off by better (maybe the odd Axcc)

sayin he called pretty quick on the turn leads me toward a draw, which is likely to bluff shove river.

c/c is always best here, he's not hero'ing light here if u shove like ever.

[SuuPRlim]

a pretty strong case for jamming is that it's a card we should be jamming here most of time we get to the river with air, so from the perspective of your overall range jam would certainly be best i imagine

my instinct reading through was that in this particular vacuum c/call could be ftw but I think this comes almost exclusively from the description of the villain

[boldie]

Very tricky, I probably check/call hoping that the young scandie will play it like a young Scandie and get his chips in. I can't really see what he'd be calling with that we beat on the river if we jam.

[George2Loose]

a pretty strong case for jamming is that it's a card we should be jamming here most of time we get to the river with air, so from the perspective of your overall range jam would certainly be best i imagine

my instinct reading through was that in this particular vacuum c/call could be ftw but I think this comes almost exclusively from the description of the villain

Agree again weak/tight players Im jamming just cos I jam my air hands here too but with this villian I tank check

[Whollyflush]

Obviously this is always a jam in cash games, but in live mtt's surely the idea about jamming all your range is somewhat redundant since ive never and am unlikely to play these guys ever again? (never make antes ldo)

i.e in a cash game i'd be jamming the river with KK all day as its pretty much the same hand, apart from some blockers to Ax, however with no/limited reads on unknown live players how many people will jam KK for value OTR as opposed to c/c-c/f.

I do agree that preflop seems bad in hindsight.

[SuuPRlim]

yh live poker is so tilting

[NoflopsHomer]

yh live poker is so awesome

fyp

[AlexMartin]

looked again at this, its deffo a c/c as this should be a pretty terrible card for us. only a madman would 3b AK and triple this board pre antes

checking upsides:-

a) he can valuebet worse- small but deffo a chance he can have AXcc played passively.

b) he can bluff- huge opportunity for him to turn something marginal into a bluff, tonne of whiffed draws and medium pairs that recognise they now have no showdown value.

fake blocker could be used, if villain thinks ur either bad/old or a combination of both.

[Spraggs]

a pretty strong case for jamming is that it's a card we should be jamming here most of time we get to the river with air, so from the perspective of your overall range jam would certainly be best i imagine

Don't forget about the preflop action, we've 3bet a 3.5x raise, oop, pre antes. By the time the river comes, it is just so unlikely we don't have a made hand.

If the villain is anything near capable, he will have assigned a range to us that has ~0 airballs in it.

therefore the A will look like a gd bluff card for him if he has a missed draw. (tryin to push us off KK/QQ etc)

another alternative to chk calling, is throwing out a bet of ~2k and calling any shove, as he may think ur block betting, and try and get u off it.

[SuuPRlim]

a pretty strong case for jamming is that it's a card we should be jamming here most of time we get to the river with air, so from the perspective of your overall range jam would certainly be best i imagine

Don't forget about the preflop action, we've 3bet a 3.5x raise, oop, pre antes. By the time the river comes, it is just so unlikely we don't have a made hand.

If the villain is anything near capable, he will have assigned a range to us that has ~0 airballs in it.

in reference to his overall range he can defoo have airballs, however this is in reference to a specifc MTT vacuum in which case you're prolly right, as we're playing in one specific situation I think this is just entirely down to your perception of the villain at this moment