Cash Game Question / Ruling

[JamesDeaa]

Good Afternoon All,

I have read blonde for a long time but never posted or signed up but decided to after a cash hand from last night which has really confused me / grated me.

I am sure I am in the right, but also does not help a casino running 2 cash tables does not have a experienced poker manager to make a ruling.

Location: G Casino (Piccadilly / Leicester Sq) - Been playing here for a while as the game is soft to say the least.
Game: £1/£1

I bought in for £100 and got stacked in the 2nd hand and bought back in for £200, after about 30 minutes I had grinded up for £350 and then this happened.

Pre Flop

UTG (Raises to £6 every hand) - Makes it £6
Cut off - Calls
Hero on the button makes it £22 to go with -
UTG - Calls
Cut off - Folds

Flop

 

UTG - £6 again
Hero makes - £32
UTG - Calls

Turn

 

UTG - £66

Hes very loose and could always have a flush here but i genuinely don't think he does, so I shove for about £140 more. He now tanks up for what seemed like an age. He eventually calls

River

  (sigh)

At this point I declare a set of Jacks, He said Queens and mucks (cards over the line touching the board), He then went "Oh No, I had 2 red Queens, so I had the flush I win, he grabbed his cards back and flipped them over trying to claim the pot, This point I just start laughing knowing any card room manager who has seen on camera or been told by the dealer someone has mucked there hand over the line and then take them back will declare there hand dead weather it is best of not.

The dealer attempts to pass the post to him, I then say wait I want a ruling that is the worst decision I have ever seen and some of the worst behaviour I have ever seen at a poker table, at this point he has stacked the chips up put them in his stack and is trying to get the dealer to deal. I have to litrally not give her my 2 cards to stop the next hand happening and make her leave the board and both hands out.

After 10 minutes the casino pit boss manager comes over who said he knows nothing about poker but declares if he had a flush he had it weather he put his cards over the line or not (i then asked WHY is there a line then he just went errrrrrrrrrr) and wins the pot even though everyone around the table is telling him its wrong and the guy who won the pot is wrong.

At this point I ask them to ring the Vic for a ruling (being same group) and they REFUSE, saying his ruling his final (even though stating he knows nothing about poker)

I'm may come across bitter it has just massively annoyed me...

What would people be asking to happen when this happens? Would you make a complaint?....

To make it worse he then gives me a epic rub down

[George2Loose]

If cards don't touch the muck they're live

[JamesDeaa]

If cards don't touch the muck they're live

So what is the point in having a betting line?

Also his cards 1 was over the line, the other was touching the flop?

[gatso]

correct ruling, you lose. the line has nothing to do with mucking, it's a betting line

his cards haven't touched the muck so they're live

If cards don't touch the muck they're live

So what is the point in having a betting line.

for betting. if chips go over the line they're in play

[JamesDeaa]

correct ruling, you lose. the line has nothing to do with mucking, it's a betting line

his cards haven't touched the muck so they're live

If cards don't touch the muck they're live

So what is the point in having a betting line.

I musta been wrong then, OK. Thanks for the replies!

for betting. if chips go over the line they're in play

[pokerfan]

 

[boldie]

[wallysnooper]

Pritty much what everything gatso said.

But what is classed as the muck?  if hes thrown his cards face down into a pile of other cards then its definetley dead, orginall OP states villiam throws his cards and they touch the board, is this classed as a muck?

[JamesDeaa]

Pritty much what everything gatso said.

But what is classed as the muck?  if hes thrown his cards face down into a pile of other cards then its definetley dead, orginall OP states villiam throws his cards and they touch the board, is this classed as a muck?

That is what I thought? He has thrown his cards in face down

one crosses the line, other goes in and touche the board?

[Ironside]

The board isn't the muck, the board cards are live if the cards had touched the dead cards his Hand is dead

[SuuPRlim]

In UK poker there is actually no such thing as a betting line, a lot of tables have them but they are purely aesthetic and functionally irrelevant, chips over the line dont mean they've been bet nessercarily either - its an american thing

 The "mucking" of cards is the interesting thing here - I've seen it ruled that once you've lid your card forward the "motion" of that is enough to deem them mucked, other rulings which say its the deakler that mucks the card, once he's taken them in it classes as mucked and others which say they have to touch the muck.

its very tilting but im not at all surprised he got the pot, ul

[gatso]

The "mucking" of cards is the interesting thing here - I've seen it ruled that once you've lid your card forward the "motion" of that is enough to deem them mucked

that's more for passing rather than mucking at showdown. the ruling here is pretty clear cut

[SuuPRlim]

The "mucking" of cards is the interesting thing here - I've seen it ruled that once you've lid your card forward the "motion" of that is enough to deem them mucked

that's more for passing rather than mucking at showdown. the ruling here is pretty clear cut

yh agreed

[GreekStein]

22 + 32 + 206 = 260. What happened to the other 90 quid in your stack?

The betting line is for betting and the muck is for mucked hands.

If his cards touched the muck then the pot is yours, otherwise ruling is fine.

However, if there's no proper td or person able to give sufficient rulings, prob not clever to play there.

One time be jaydea

[JamesDeaa]

22 + 32 + 206 = 260. What happened to the other 90 quid in your stack?

The betting line is for betting and the muck is for mucked hands.

If his cards touched the muck then the pot is yours, otherwise ruling is fine.

However, if there's no proper td or person able to give sufficient rulings, prob not clever to play there.

One time be jaydea

He only had another £140 more to call in his stack. Leaving me with £98 behind.

Its the first issue I have had there in about 3 months of playing there once or twice a week.