Cash Game Question / Ruling

[gatso]

if I was the other guy in the hand I'd be abs steaming with you trying to get my hand ruled dead

[pokerfan]

if I was the other guy in the hand I'd be abs steaming with you trying to get my hand ruled dead

Agree, shitty trick.

[JamesDeaa]

if I was the other guy in the hand I'd be abs steaming with you trying to get my hand ruled dead

Agree, shitty trick.

Don't really see how myself. The dealer kept saying if your hand is over the line its folded, so i dont see the difference myself?

[gatso]

shitty trick is going a bit far as op obv didn't know the rule. wouldn't change how pissed off I'd be though

[JamesDeaa]

shitty trick is going a bit far as op obv didn't know the rule. wouldn't change how pissed off I'd be though

So even if the dealer is saying all night, keep your cards and chips behind the line or otherwise the chips are in the pot or your cards are folded?

[bobAlike]

Sounds desperate to me.

[gatso]

shitty trick is going a bit far as op obv didn't know the rule. wouldn't change how pissed off I'd be though

So even if the dealer is saying all night, keep your cards and chips behind the line or otherwise the chips are in the pot or your cards are folded?

despite the fact that the dealer's wrong which kinda explains your viewpoint there's a world of difference between folding and mucking at showdown. just because a particular action is considered to be a fold does not mean that same action is considered to be a muck

[Cf]

omg. the best hand at showdown got awarded the pot? what is the world coming to?

[cambridgealex]

It is the dealers mistake. Once the guy throws his cards face down towards the muck, it is the dealers job to instantly scoop them and kill them. They are not dead until he has done so. Of course it is tilting that this mistake has been made, and also tilting that the floor have no clue what they're doing and handled the situation badly, despite in fact making the correct ruling.

I have had plenty of experience playing in venues like these, fortunately Gala notts is so weak on rulings that I can literally tell the floor staff what the rules are and that goes. Once they tried to kill a hand, once hundreds of pounds was in the middle and the flop and turn had already been dealt, just because the dealer had exposed a whole bunch of cards. I flipped out and said that was bullshit and told them what the ruling should be and the "manager" snap changed his mind

So imo I'd stay away from venues without proper floor staff and that have competant dealers. Shouldnt be a problem in central london, Foxs is only down the road.

[Girgy85]

What alex said in his first paragraph!!

Dealer wants shooting for not killing the mucked cards as soon as they have been passed!! Would of saved all the hassle and teached the moron with QQ to read the game properly and not be a total douchebag!!

[Skippy]

Firstly, the ruling is obviously right.

Now, putting on my asbestos underpants....

Secondly, what you are trying to do is win a pot with the worst hand by exploiting the rules. This stinks, even if you were technically right.  Even if the cards had brushed the muck, the best thing to do would be to let him have the pot, providing the cards are retrievable (this is why, as Alex says, dealers should bury the cards deep in the muck as soon as possible). I feel that you've got to conduct yourself in the right way, and besides, if you are a good player and he is as bad as he sounds, you're going to get the money sooner or later anyway, and you don't want him to feel cheated- he might never come back.

(feel free to quote this post when I turn the table over next time I get a dealer error).

[SuuPRlim]

ALSO....

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BETTING LINE

[gatso]

ALSO....

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BETTING LINE

I agree with every part of that apart from the bit about there being no betting line

and a quick bit of research tells me that grosvenor's rules actually refer to it as an action line and it is used for both betting and folding so the dealer was correct in stating that cards over the line are folded. this doesn't change the situation in op as folding and mucking at showdown are not the same thing obv

[JaffaCake]

At the last festival at the Vic there was a hand were the board read AKKKA and Willie Tann raised the river when the aggressor in the hand had bet again. The guy thought for a while and eventually called and Willie said good call and threw his cards over the line. I couldn't really work out why, as I thought the guy may have been calling for a split (surely an ace is the only card Willie didn't wanna see, that's all he can call with that beats him right).

Sure enough the guy shows QQ and Willie says split pot and turns his cards over. The dealer said no you're hand is dead once u throw it in face down and the ruling was called and given that Willie's hand was dead (there was no question of it touching any other card/muck/board cards). Not sure if it matters it was a tourney not a cash game, but seems that Grosvenor rules are the cards are dead when over the line, unless the floor got it wrong that time.

As others said, I wouldn't have tried to claim the pot in the circumstances u describe, it's a bit like pulling a stroke, the guy obv has the best hand, give him the money and tell him how lucky he was until he buys u a drink, can see why u would try it tho and under their rules u may have been right?

[dik9]

(Sighs at another fantastic Grosvenor rule)