interesting hand

[AlexMartin]

ok, utg opener is a semi-shortstacker. buys in short and stays a while. he opens pretty wide from all positions and has a monstrous 4b range (4.5) and a big squeeze. CO 3bettor is one of the best regs on the site, albeit a little nitty in general. I flat pre b/c the utg guy is doing his balls on the night. Options on the flop/thoughts?

BTW co villain views me as decent, aggro but with stationy tendencies.

***** Hand History for Game 3767111505 ***** (Prima)
$1000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, February 09, 02:11:34 ET 2011
Table Against All Odds 2 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: pufyt ( $547.00 USD )
Seat 2: Hockey84 ( $1469.99 USD )
Seat 3: P0nt00n ( $1691.00 USD )
Seat 4: Snaapster ( $1000.00 USD )
Seat 5: Sk1llGaMe ( $1107.00 USD )
Seat 6: el_pescado ( $1682.25 USD )
Sk1llGaMe posts small blind [$5.00 USD].
el_pescado posts big blind [$10.00 USD].
Dealt to Sk1llGaMe [  ]
pufyt raises [$30.00 USD]
Hockey84 folds
P0nt00n raises [$90.00 USD]
Snaapster folds
Sk1llGaMe calls [$85.00 USD]
el_pescado folds
pufyt calls [$60.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, , ]
Sk1llGaMe checks
pufyt checks
P0nt00n bets [$90.00 USD]

[titaniumbean]

if the reg has a polarised range then surely we want to c/c the flop and try and let the shorty in if possible.

edit it's pretty ghay because our hand is obviously going to always be relatively strong. I first typed out raise but then thought that peeling > raising flop to try and rep a draw heavy range.

[SuuPRlim]

Id be really interested to hear what you think CO 3better thinks of your range in this spot

Also surely the 3better is going to be a bit wider than usual vs a spewing shortstack?

[titaniumbean]

Id be really interested to hear what you think CO 3better thinks of your range in this spot

Also surely the 3better is going to be a bit wider than usual vs a spewing shortstack?

if shorty flats at all then co should be able to have a wider valuey range whereas if he's just 4b or fold CO should have rando soooted and blockers range. if it's the latter then we have to let him barrel to really win money off of him and/or win money from the UTG player. if he has more Ax in his range + if he holds a king and sees a flop raise as drawy then there should be value from that route?

[Whollyflush]

Raise, when hes c/betting 3way with a shorty in the pot he should never have air (or at least equity of a FD) + your OOP so make a small raise. The shorty is handicapped in what he can do due to stacksizes, so he will play accordingly.

[Whollyflush]

Id be really interested to hear what you think CO 3better thinks of your range in this spot

Also surely the 3better is going to be a bit wider than usual vs a spewing shortstack?

if shorty flats at all then co should be able to have a wider valuey range whereas if he's just 4b or fold CO should have rando soooted and blockers range. if it's the latter then we have to let him barrel to really win money off of him and/or win money from the UTG player. if he has more Ax in his range + if he holds a king and sees a flop raise as drawy then there should be value from that route?

if hes assumed competent, he shouldn't have much suited trash sc's 3betting range vs a spewy shortstack. Even still assuming he does (something as low as 20%) assuming hes competent he should be c/betting this board 0% of the time. I'd say hes likely to have AT+ here. Whether he c/bets AT/AJ in this spot is another question and will depend on his tendancies.

[pleno1]

I doubt we are ever bluffing in this spot so I do a flat cawl. I think your range (depending on opening raiser) is like 88-jj and AK, sometimes AA/KK? Ofc you could turn the former into a bluff but more likely to have a really big hand but in this situ I just don't think we are going to be bluffing enough with our air/underpairs so falt cawling for now is better also.

[NoflopsHomer]

Isn't that Danny Rudd?

[celtic]

Isn't that Danny Rudd?

It is, and he always has it imo

[AlexMartin]

Raise, when hes c/betting 3way with a shorty in the pot he should never have air (or at least equity of a FD) + your OOP so make a small raise. The shorty is handicapped in what he can do due to stacksizes, so he will play accordingly.

i agree with the bolded part. I assume you mean that shorty is incapable of spew in this spot anyhow, right? if so i was on same thought process as you. problem is i dont have bluffs

[pleno1]

Raise, when hes c/betting 3way with a shorty in the pot he should never have air (or at least equity of a FD) + your OOP so make a small raise. The shorty is handicapped in what he can do due to stacksizes, so he will play accordingly.

 problem is i dont have bluffs

I doubt we are ever bluffing in this spot so I do a flat cawl. I think your range (depending on opening raiser) is like 88-jj and AK, sometimes AA/KK? Ofc you could turn the former into a bluff but more likely to have a really big hand but in this situ I just don't think we are going to be bluffing enough with our air/underpairs so falt cawling for now is better also.

yeah agree with that too and what i was trying to say.

[SuuPRlim]

if hes assumed competent, he shouldn't have much suited trash sc's 3betting range vs a spewy shortstack.

yh i figured that he pretty much never 3bets anything that wont call the shorty jam, in this specific spot.
I don't see how you can ever balance here with the short stack playing as he does, or if its a particular problem as we're dealing with a pretty unique situation, i.e not gonna damage our ranges too much never having bluffs specifically here?

[Whollyflush]

if hes assumed competent, he shouldn't have much suited trash sc's 3betting range vs a spewy shortstack.

yh i figured that he pretty much never 3bets anything that wont call the shorty jam, in this specific spot.
I don't see how you can ever balance here with the short stack playing as he does, or if its a particular problem as we're dealing with a pretty unique situation, i.e not gonna damage our ranges too much never having bluffs specifically here?

This is very true, this spot probably only pops up every 100k hands so balancing isn't an issue/needed and its not a spot thats going to have much of an effect on our winrate.

[AlexMartin]

iv cross-posted this on 2p2 fwiw. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/56/medium-stakes-pl-nl/5-10-3b-pot-facing-extremely-small-bet-3way-975944/

[piestack]

i would like to call the flop (and would probably end up doing so as i'm not very good) but think raising is better as it makes the hand much easier to play.
if he is a good reg, calling the flop will lead to tough full stack decisions later in the hand and you're unlikely to win a lot when a head, but will lost a lot when be hind.
if i did call i would probably want to check/fold or bet/fold the turn