Another tedious ruling thread

[dik9]

A player has been missed FFS that is why betting has not completed. It is not gross misunderstanding!

What job do you do Nana?

[Cf]

A player has been missed FFS that is why betting has not completed. It is not gross misunderstanding!

What job do you do Nana?

Nothing to do with poker I'm a post grad student.

The point I was making though was the fact that because a player has been missed the betting wasn't completed. The fact a flop was dealt has no bearing on whether the betting was completed or not.

My argument in this scenario is that because of the gross misunderstanding, and the fact that there has been no action after him, player A can have his options reopened. The fact that a flop was dealt doesn't matter, as as we can see this doesn't signal the end of a betting round. The gross misunderstanding rule is designed to offer a certain amount of protection for certain situations where a player misunderstands the size of a wager. This is one of them imo. It just so happens in this case we have to redeal a flop.

[smashedagain]

Btw Ian bryan I think it is made the ruling

ian aint my cup of tea coz he is told me the poker fairy must have taken my chips in blackpool gukpt last year.he gave a ruling on our table. dealer deals the river and its bradshaw to act. in true bradshaw fashion he opens his hand ace high over the useless line on the table. other player in the hand mucks a claimed set of sixes assuming bradshaws hand was dead. the pot is pushed to andy who puts the chips on his stack and the lad kicks off. ian bryan gives the ruling to the lad and recreates the hand to find out how much was in the pot. andy then without arguement to be fair gives back the chips. the cardroom managers decision is always final but later on we asked both dena and toby for a theoretical ruling and they gave the same but different ruling to ian

[George2Loose]

I honestly don't know. Its a tough situation. I have no idea why it wasnt spotted before the flop. I wasn't paying attention.

Think he just has to Flick the extra 5k in and get on with it.

[Cf]

Btw Ian bryan I think it is made the ruling

ian aint my cup of tea coz he is told me the poker fairy must have taken my chips in blackpool gukpt last year.he gave a ruling on our table. dealer deals the river and its bradshaw to act. in true bradshaw fashion he opens his hand ace high over the useless line on the table. other player in the hand mucks a claimed set of sixes assuming bradshaws hand was dead. the pot is pushed to andy who puts the chips on his stack and the lad kicks off. ian bryan gives the ruling to the lad and recreates the hand to find out how much was in the pot. andy then without arguement to be fair gives back the chips. the cardroom managers decision is always final but later on we asked both dena and toby for a theoretical ruling and they gave the same but different ruling to ian

I'd have to be there to see exactly what happened but should be getting the pot here. As it wasn't showdown I'd most likely be taking the A high as a fold if it has been pushed over the line as throwing cards forward is a sign of folding - but i'd need to see it. The fact the hand was exposed doesn't in itself constitute a fold. It's a grey area, and i'm not comfortable with punishing here because someone else is trying to pull a stroke. My general rule of thumb in these situations is if in doubt the best poker hand wins.

[smashedagain]

I honestly don't know. Its a tough situation. I have no idea why it wasnt spotted before the flop. I wasn't paying attention.

Think he just has to Flick the extra 5k in and get on with it.

common sense ruling ftw

[dik9]

A player has been missed FFS that is why betting has not completed. It is not gross misunderstanding!

What job do you do Nana?

Nothing to do with poker I'm a post grad student.

The point I was making though was the fact that because a player has been missed the betting wasn't completed. The fact a flop was dealt has no bearing on whether the betting was completed or not.

My argument in this scenario is that because of the gross misunderstanding, and the fact that there has been no action after him, player A can have his options reopened. The fact that a flop was dealt doesn't matter, as as we can see this doesn't signal the end of a betting round. The gross misunderstanding rule is designed to offer a certain amount of protection for certain situations where a player misunderstands the size of a wager. This is one of them imo. It just so happens in this case we have to redeal a flop.

With all due respect, and please don't take offence! But sometimes I would like to roll Roberts Rule of Poker up and force it down ya neck lol (This is said in jest btw)

IT IS NOT A GROSS MISUNDERSTANDING BY A PLAYER, IT IS A DEALER ERROR!

That Gross misunderstanding rule is bollox anyway, if someone has raised at DTD and someone puts the original bet in without realising. That stays in the pot and they have the option to call, tough shit on the player ... they should have been following the game

[smashedagain]

Btw Ian bryan I think it is made the ruling

ian aint my cup of tea coz he is told me the poker fairy must have taken my chips in blackpool gukpt last year.he gave a ruling on our table. dealer deals the river and its bradshaw to act. in true bradshaw fashion he opens his hand ace high over the useless line on the table. other player in the hand mucks a claimed set of sixes assuming bradshaws hand was dead. the pot is pushed to andy who puts the chips on his stack and the lad kicks off. ian bryan gives the ruling to the lad and recreates the hand to find out how much was in the pot. andy then without arguement to be fair gives back the chips. the cardroom managers decision is always final but later on we asked both dena and toby for a theoretical ruling and they gave the same but different ruling to ian

I'd have to be there to see exactly what happened but should be getting the pot here. As it wasn't showdown I'd most likely be taking the A high as a fold if it has been pushed over the line as throwing cards forward is a sign of folding - but i'd need to see it. The fact the hand was exposed doesn't in itself constitute a fold. It's a grey area, and i'm not comfortable with punishing here because someone else is trying to pull a stroke. My general rule of thumb in these situations is if in doubt the best poker hand wins.

he mucked his hand and only said he had a set of sixes. could have been a stroke by andy but said at the time if you never knew andy it looks like a stroke. but as he never complained i dont think he was at it

[Cf]

Btw Ian bryan I think it is made the ruling

ian aint my cup of tea coz he is told me the poker fairy must have taken my chips in blackpool gukpt last year.he gave a ruling on our table. dealer deals the river and its bradshaw to act. in true bradshaw fashion he opens his hand ace high over the useless line on the table. other player in the hand mucks a claimed set of sixes assuming bradshaws hand was dead. the pot is pushed to andy who puts the chips on his stack and the lad kicks off. ian bryan gives the ruling to the lad and recreates the hand to find out how much was in the pot. andy then without arguement to be fair gives back the chips. the cardroom managers decision is always final but later on we asked both dena and toby for a theoretical ruling and they gave the same but different ruling to ian

I'd have to be there to see exactly what happened but should be getting the pot here. As it wasn't showdown I'd most likely be taking the A high as a fold if it has been pushed over the line as throwing cards forward is a sign of folding - but i'd need to see it. The fact the hand was exposed doesn't in itself constitute a fold. It's a grey area, and i'm not comfortable with punishing here because someone else is trying to pull a stroke. My general rule of thumb in these situations is if in doubt the best poker hand wins.

he mucked his hand and only said he had a set of sixes. could have been a stroke by andy but said at the time if you never knew andy it looks like a stroke. but as he never complained i dont think he was at it

If the were in the muck and unidentifiable then it comes down to whether the A high hand was threw forward in a folding motion or not. If it was then get the pot as last live hand. If not A high gets it, along with some sort of penalty ofc.

[Cf]

A player has been missed FFS that is why betting has not completed. It is not gross misunderstanding!

What job do you do Nana?

Nothing to do with poker I'm a post grad student.

The point I was making though was the fact that because a player has been missed the betting wasn't completed. The fact a flop was dealt has no bearing on whether the betting was completed or not.

My argument in this scenario is that because of the gross misunderstanding, and the fact that there has been no action after him, player A can have his options reopened. The fact that a flop was dealt doesn't matter, as as we can see this doesn't signal the end of a betting round. The gross misunderstanding rule is designed to offer a certain amount of protection for certain situations where a player misunderstands the size of a wager. This is one of them imo. It just so happens in this case we have to redeal a flop.

With all due respect, and please don't take offence! But sometimes I would like to roll Roberts Rule of Poker up and force it down ya neck lol (This is said in jest btw)

IT IS NOT A GROSS MISUNDERSTANDING BY A PLAYER, IT IS A DEALER ERROR!

That Gross misunderstanding rule is bollox anyway, if someone has raised at DTD and someone puts the original bet in without realising. That stays in the pot and they have the option to call, tough shit on the player ... they should have been following the game

Maybe we just need to agree to disagree. Personally the way I see it the total wager is 15k. The player believes it to be 10k. If this doesn't count as gross misunderstanding of a wager then I don't know what does.

As for the DTD rule of having to call the full amount or sacrifice what was in there - I don't like that. In fact I'd go as far to say it's an awful rule. Rules should exist to allow a game to play naturally. Your rule artificially changes the outcome of the game. The easy case is say the blinds are 100-200 and someone makes it 600. A player doesn't realise and puts in 200. DTD state that he either folds and loses the 200 or calls the 600. Even if the player would not originally have called the 600 most people now call here - partly out of stubborness of not wanting to lose their 200, but they're also getting better odds due to the 200 they can't have back. This may result in the players behind thinking they're getting value and calling. In short - the hand plays out completely differently than it would have done had we not had this rule. I'm all for players paying attention - but this form of punishment affects other people too and I don't like it.

[smashedagain]

Btw Ian bryan I think it is made the ruling

ian aint my cup of tea coz he is told me the poker fairy must have taken my chips in blackpool gukpt last year.he gave a ruling on our table. dealer deals the river and its bradshaw to act. in true bradshaw fashion he opens his hand ace high over the useless line on the table. other player in the hand mucks a claimed set of sixes assuming bradshaws hand was dead. the pot is pushed to andy who puts the chips on his stack and the lad kicks off. ian bryan gives the ruling to the lad and recreates the hand to find out how much was in the pot. andy then without arguement to be fair gives back the chips. the cardroom managers decision is always final but later on we asked both dena and toby for a theoretical ruling and they gave the same but different ruling to ian

I'd have to be there to see exactly what happened but should be getting the pot here. As it wasn't showdown I'd most likely be taking the A high as a fold if it has been pushed over the line as throwing cards forward is a sign of folding - but i'd need to see it. The fact the hand was exposed doesn't in itself constitute a fold. It's a grey area, and i'm not comfortable with punishing here because someone else is trying to pull a stroke. My general rule of thumb in these situations is if in doubt the best poker hand wins.

he mucked his hand and only said he had a set of sixes. could have been a stroke by andy but said at the time if you never knew andy it looks like a stroke. but as he never complained i dont think he was at it

If the were in the muck and unidentifiable then it comes down to whether the A high hand was threw forward in a folding motion or not. If it was then get the pot as last live hand. If not A high gets it, along with some sort of penalty ofc.

andy turned them over as you would at show down. my thoughts on the hand went back to ept dortmund where de wolfe showed a king and mucked the oher card..german with queen high awarded the pot. this sprung to mind because ian came up with an excuse about gukpt rules being different to ukipt rules

[dik9]

Maybe we just need to agree to disagree.

As I previously said, there is no right or wrong rule here. Simply a TD's decision as to the fairest way of dealing with the situation.

[Cf]

Maybe we just need to agree to disagree.

As I previously said, there is no right or wrong rule here. Simply a TD's decision as to the fairest way of dealing with the situation.

Do you have an account on that TDA blog site? Might be an interesting one to post on there...

[dik9]

I am a member, can't remember password lol. Will try in a bit to post there and pm you the link. Need sleep first

[SuuPRlim]

rofl jason that blackpool ruling sounds like the worst thing ever.

could play online where this doesnt happen :p