Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[LeedsRhodesy]

http://www.justin.tv/quadjackslive?utm_campaign=live_embed_click&utm_source=www.quadjacks.com#/w/1278678208

[TightEnd]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/nick-rainey-talking-candidly-about-ftp-quadjacks-1046107/

[outragous76]

Having just listened to the 2+2 pokercast - if i had any money on FTP  - it would be getting cashed out immd!

[Dave 1961]

Hi

I am in Vegas now and the cash games are very busy to say the least and the Venetian deep-stack is hitting 850 today. The poker room managers are saying since black Friday all the tables are full and the games are huge. Those players that got the money out are playing live and the action is higher than ever before. Yesterday the Rio had 80 cash tables and all low (1-2k)buy in events are well attended so for the moment the live players are benefiting from black Friday.

[TightEnd]

The Center Cannot Hold

Posted by Brandon Adams on Jun 8, 2011

In 1998’s Shut Up and Deal , Jesse May told you all you need to know about the poker world. My book, 2006’s Broke: A Poker Novel, was an afterword. In his June 1 blog, “Poker is going back to the Wolves”, Jesse said, “I looked around the room yesterday at six pm and it was nothing but lifers as far as the eye could see. Just a big group of all those with life sentences in poker and no other prospects and no contemplation that something else might come along if things go bad.”

As a Full Tilt pro, I have to contend with the fifth paragraph in Jesse’s blog:

“Many lifers showed up without patches, and their message was clear. I belong here, they said, you all know I do. Top drawer or case money, I’m a poker player first and last, in 2011 or 2054. One man, however, showed up wearing his patch and squeaking his high voice, and that was not cool. You’re supposed to leave your gang colors off at funerals, weddings, and when you’re behind on the rent. Anything else is just provocation, especially when there’s a satchel under your bed stuffed with sweatshop jeans made by 18-year old indentured grinders that you gave minimum wage. It was no wonder that tempers got raised.”

I think this is harsh. I expect to wear a Full Tilt patch during most of the Series. I’ll do this not because Full Tilt tells me to (indeed, Full Tilt sent out an email to US pros that leaves all US deals in an ambiguous standing) and not because I have a self-interest in doing so. Obviously it’s more convenient not to wear a patch on any given day, given the scorn and media interest one might receive, and certainly one doesn’t expect financial benefit from wearing a patch (my deal, for instance, only awards money if the patch is shown on TV, but one is not allowed to wear poker site logos on feature tables this year).

I’ll wear a patch more out of loyalty, because I know and like the Full Tilt guys, and I trust them to do the right thing. Along with everyone else in poker, I’m devastated by the fact that the poker world is being ripped apart, and I’m horrified by the fact that Full Tilt hasn’t been able to meet its obligations in the short-term.

I’ll also be wearing a Full Tilt patch out of fear. Like Jesse, I also see poker going back to the wolves, but, unlike him, I view this as the worst thing imaginable. Many of the best people I’ve come across in poker are associated with Full Tilt, and, in my mind, rightly or wrongly, if they fail to do the right thing and Full Tilt goes down, then poker will have gone fully back to the wolves.

Why the fear? Shut Up and Deal is the best poker novel because Jesse May recognizes, without coming out and saying as much, that a world ruled by addiction and self-delusion can never look anything like the normal world and will never play by its rules. This is a point missed by most posts in the blogosphere, the twittersphere, and the poker forums.
Poker is a lifestyle masquerading as a career path. And as lifestyles go, it’s not a particularly healthy or sustainable one (But is a lot of fun). The online poker sites sort of successfully sold the idea of poker as a career path (obviously it was in their interest to do so), and now many people look at poker as almost like a normal industry, something that with a little effort they will be able to understand and comment on.

The thing is: poker doesn’t work that way. After being around poker for a very long time, I can tell you that it’s all shadows, blue pills, and unpealed layers. You always think you understand, but you don’t.

My fear is simply that, if Full Tilt can’t hold it together, poker will enter a dark phase.
It’s notable that since Moneymaker’s win in 2003 and the launch of the golden age of poker, there have been relatively few instances of violence in the poker world. Arguably, this has a lot to do with the legitimacy brought to the poker world by the major sites, and with the flood of money that the sites channeled from the outskirts of the poker world to the center.

To me, the threat of violence in gambling is the reason that we need regulation to hit the poker space as soon as possible. People have lost sight of the reasons why violence and gambling are natural bedfellows. First, gamblers are often sick and tend to run up debts. Since these debts are hard or impossible to collect using normal channels, force is often used. The gambling world tends to evolve over time towards people who use force (or are friendly with people who use force), for the simple reason that those are the people who get paid first. At present, many online players are entering the live world — I am sure they will win millions, but at the end they will have little hard coin and a lot of IOUs. Second, cheating and other angling is rampant in gambling, and the only protection is the threat of force. Third, because gambling is a cash economy that intersects with other, more dangerous cash economies, gamblers not protected by the threat of violence are open targets for extortion and theft.

The poker world rightly praises Pokerstars for its extreme efficiency in funding US withdrawals. I’ll admit that Pokerstars is, in a certain way of looking at the world, the perfectly run poker organization. It’s the most efficient and ruthless rake gathering machine ever created. I can admire that, I guess, but my heart is with Full Tilt. They’ve made amateurish mistakes at times, but Full Tilt is an organization run by poker players, with sympathy for the wellbeing of the overall poker community.
If Full Tilt does not pay back its players in the near term, they are worthy of scorn — we cannot excuse that. But I believe that they deserve just a little more patience in their efforts to overcome management mistakes and a government seizure.

Brandon

[Dave 1961]

While I think it is a well written and thoughtful article I cannot agree with all that Brandon has said.

I cannot write is fluently as Jesse or Brandon but here are my thoughts.

Jesse is not being harsh when the reality is that the lack of financial responsibility lies with a few organisations who new exactly what they were doing and made hay while the sun shone. There can be no excuse for the way they have handled other people’s money. Full tilt is a leading brand and as such should have held that responsibility in such a way that it led the poker industry to create more professional image and structure. The idea that Pokerstars is the most efficient poker site is ridiculous, its facing $3 billion on fines how is that efficient, it simply managed its cash flow better than Tilt but it has some serious challenges going forward


All players are not addicts or violent gamblers, I would argue that most are looking for a game, a chance to win and in many ways prove that they are part of something that they enjoy. Sure the lifers will always be there but they are not the ones who are responsible for today’s situation. Also the majority of players are small stakes people who aspire to play in something bigger but don’t overstretch there lifestyle.

Its time to move the industry forward not back, for professional organisations to bring in structure and a series of live events that can attract non gaming sponsors. Golf was an “addiction” back in the 50s (for many it still is) and with smart marketing and a central independent organisation it evolved into a recognised profession. It would be easy to say what has happened is the end, that poker will slowly die out if the US doesn’t go legal and players accounts are not settled. I believe however that as a result of the actions in the US a line is now drawn and regulation will happen quicker than most think. IGT didn’t buy Entraction for its international business; Betfair and bwin haven’t opened offices in the west coast because poker is ending in the US. Stop focusing on those that decided to break the law and instead consider those that have waited and planned patiently, they may surprise you.


I to have been around poker for many years, I first went to the WSOP in 1992 and have been every year since. I have watched as players and sites have evolved beyond all recognition. Today my company looks after several poker tours and countless networks and sites; we manage player support and registration.  We handle millions in multiple currencies and guarantee registrations and funds returned if you are a no show, all of this is handled in secure client accounts so that the player’s money is protected in the bank and not used as our money. If we can do this why couldn’t the US facing sites? We are not as obvious as many groups but we have been around longer than many and we believe that poker is something more than

“ all shadows, blue pills, and unpealed layers. You always think you understand, but you don’t.”

I am sure that there are many players that do live in dark places, that could be said for many professions and I am sure we can all think of several. I may have more faith in players than some as the majority I meet are decent people. Some are pro players grinding out a living; they seem happier than many I know outside of poker and are certainly well travelled. I also look after many qualifiers from on line sites who have never been abroad or at a major tournament before and they (apart from being overwhelmed sometimes) are thrilled at the opportunity to play against top players and be part of a WPT or WSOP event.

There are many new opportunities that will surface as a result of recent actions, I just hope the industry does a better job of regulating itself going forward than the world banks have. I for one will not tolerate violence at an event and will endeavour to provide the best that we can for players and sponsors alike. Watch what the other sites and networks do going forward not Tilt or Stars but the ones who have been waiting for a fairer playing field, the ones that pay there players and run efficient tours. Poker may be growing to a new phase not disappearing into the wilderness.

Sometimes it is easy to get caught up in the present and not to consider the future. The economy is a must bigger issue to poker than “black Friday” and the investment of the corporations is needed now more than ever. If I am correct (and I may be way off the mark) poker will be legalised state by state from 2012, A new major site or network will appear, there will be the formation of more festival style events in Europe were several competing brands will all hold tournaments close together and most of all non gaming brands will start to sponsor and bring much needed revenue to the players and tours alike…..maybe I am dreaming but then again I am not looking back but forward.


Dave

[Jon MW]

I thought a little bit of what you were saying sounded a bit .... odd.

Then you got to this

... Today my company looks after several poker tours and countless networks and sites; we manage player support and registration.  ...

and that explained it, I didn't really bother reading on after that line.

[Dave 1961]

I thought a little bit of what you were saying sounded a bit .... odd.

Then you got to this

... Today my company looks after several poker tours and countless networks and sites; we manage player support and registration.  ...

and that explained it, I didn't really bother reading on after that line.

I am sorry you think it was odd...and didnt read on.  I cant see what it explained, I simply believe that poker players deserve better than what they are getting at the moment.

[AlrightJack]

Is your company currently in the process of buying a poker network?

[smashedagain]

Is your company currently in the process of buying a poker network?

Are you asking on a personal level or wearing your Pokerstars hat? Lol

[AlrightJack]

I'm just asking a question, the answer to which may or may not clarify the motive for posting that Jon MW alluded to. It's certainly nothing to do with my work.

[Amatay]

In a stunning announcement Poker Stars has withdrawn from the Australian market from August 1st. Devestating news.

Something super bad is gonna develop in Europe/England soon. Gotta really bad feeling

[curnow]

In a stunning announcement Poker Stars has withdrawn from the Australian market from August 1st. Devestating news.

Something super bad is gonna develop in Europe/England soon. Gotta really bad feeling

what like

http://www.casinogeezer.com/online-casino-news/uk-government-looks-to-restrict-overseas-online-gaming-operators.php

[KarmaDope]

In a stunning announcement Poker Stars has withdrawn from the Australian market from August 1st. Devestating news.

Something super bad is gonna develop in Europe/England soon. Gotta really bad feeling

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27069397&postcount=18

[TRIP5]

In a stunning announcement Poker Stars has withdrawn from the Australian market from August 1st. Devestating news.

Something super bad is gonna develop in Europe/England soon. Gotta really bad feeling

what like

http://www.casinogeezer.com/online-casino-news/uk-government-looks-to-restrict-overseas-online-gaming-operators.php

Not for the first time I'm glad my money is on Sky

xx