Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[sovietsong]

sigh - i love ftp

then you did not have a big enough bankroll on there imo

$500

sorry to hear that. its cash you ben cheated out of tho. and the years of rake. wonder if flushy is allowed to give comment.

I think flushy will just send me the money.

He is a good lad.

[GreekStein]

6 weeks ago flushy was saying stars had handled this stuff far worse than ftp.

Just lol

[Bongo]

........, Full Tilt must cease to register new customers; accept deposits from existing customers; allow existing customers to withdraw funds that are held in their accounts; and permit customers to participate in any form of poker game play or gambling transaction.

What does that mean?  I think it is the worst constructed statement I've ever seen from a supervisory body.

Should have a colon after '...cease to'.

Think the original had them in a bulleted list.

[kinboshi]

........, Full Tilt must cease to register new customers; accept deposits from existing customers; allow existing customers to withdraw funds that are held in their accounts; and permit customers to participate in any form of poker game play or gambling transaction.

What does that mean?  I think it is the worst constructed statement I've ever seen from a supervisory body.

Should have a colon after '...cease to'.

Think the original had them in a bulleted list.

I blame Barry then, sloppy journalism.

[anthonyl]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27355884&postcount=525

Wishful thinking!

[doubleup]

Wat?

It's entirely clear.

The point of a communication of this kind is to clearly convey your message without any possibility of misunderstanding.  It is possible to interpret this statement as must - cease to register customers and accept deposits, (must) allow existing customers to withdraw, and withdrawal is what most people are concerned with.  It is only by reading the whole statement that it becomes apparent that this is a list of things that "must cease to" applies to (even though this still leads to an awkward implied "must cease to and..." at the end).

[Bongo]

As I said above it's a bit of a bad copy pasta as the original was perfectly clear.

[Longy]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27355884&postcount=525

Wishful thinking!

Scott as in Matusow?

If so, I wouldn't be holding my breath.

edit: Yeah it is Scott Matusow.

[DaveShoelace]

If there is one thing in the world that is guaranteed, if Scott Matusow says it, its wrong.

[redarmi]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27355884&postcount=525

Wishful thinking!

Whoever wrote that post has basically no idea about the way the US govt operate.  Just getting Ray Bitar out of the way will absolutely not get FTP off the hook.  The US will want a significant settlement and until they get it then FTP will have no presence in any legal US markets.

[TightEnd]

Summary from P5s

In breaking news, the Alderney Gambling Control Commission has suspended the gaming license belonging to Full Tilt Poker. The move essentially ground Full Tilt’s traffic to a complete halt, with PokerScout.com registering its cash game player count at zero as of Wednesday morning around 10:30am ET. A regulatory hearing has been scheduled for July 26th in London to address the situation.

What will happen from here remains to be seen. On TwoPlusTwo, rumors were circulating that Full Tilt Poker could reopen its doors in the near future without a gaming license. One poster quoted a source as saying, “From inside FTP: Site will ‘reopen’ in ‘a few hours’ and ‘operate without a license,’ remove Alderney logos, and change T&C.”

Full Tilt could also seek a license from the Canadian-based Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

The same poster added, however, that operating without a license could be a nightmare for payment processing: “Without a license, VISA, MC, and other payment processors will back out. No banks will want to work with an unlicensed company."

A source close to Full Tilt told PocketFives.com on Wednesday that company officials were “still working on” their next steps. In the interim, the “System Status” icon on Full Tilt’s home page simply reads, “Scheduled maintenance in progress. The system is currently down for maintenance. Please check back soon!”

A press release posted on the Alderney Gambling Control Commission’s website explained the decision to take action against Full Tilt: “The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the indictments unsealed by U.S. Attorney General’s Office in the Southern District of New York on 15 April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation. The nature of the findings necessitated the taking of immediate action in the public interest.”

Full Tilt has not yet issued cashouts to U.S. players, although it reached an agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice to process refunds one week following the Black Friday indictments back on April 15th.

The suspension of Full Tilt’s license means that the world’s second largest online poker room cannot register new players, accept deposits, process withdrawals, or offer online poker. The statement from the Alderney agency fingers Vantage Limited, Oxalic Limited, Filco Limited, and Orinic Limited, “who collectively trade as Full Tilt Poker.”

Another poster on TwoPlusTwo pasted an e-mail he received from Moneybookers addressing the Full Tilt situation: “As a Moneybookers customer, you already know you are the most important part of our business. We always make sure you receive the safest service. For this reason, we have stopped accepting deposits made to Full Tilt Poker. There are extraordinary circumstances behind this situation that are beyond our control. We will not comment on these, just take appropriate action that protects our customers.”

Also surfacing on TwoPlusTwo was a rumor that a Full Tilt Poker employee purportedly identified June 29th as the date on which Full Tilt Poker would effectively be shut down. In a thread about Lock Poker pro Jose “Girah” Macedo, one TwoPlusTwo user wrote, “Just seen something really, really interesting in another thread. There was some guy who posted soon after Black Friday saying he was a FTP employee and said FTP was about to go down - and apparently even said it would be on 29th June when it would happen!”

A source close to Full Tilt Poker told PocketFives.com that an e-mail update is forthcoming.

Meanwhile, over on Twitter, Full Tilt pro Tom Dwan  has been fielding questions from concerned Full Tilt Poker players. Just before signing off for the night, Dwan Tweeted, “Just heard some rly good news that I'd love to trust, gonna go to sleep instead of making my head explode w/ various extrapolations.”

Dwan added, “Some pretty objective ppl whose opinions I respect are worried now that FT can't pay out or find a buyer. Me too more I think about it.”

Around 11:00am ET, Dwan explained, “I'll try to Tweet my take on the situation in a few hours when I wake up- which'll be more educated and hopefully contain more good news.”

We’ll keep you posted on the latest on Full Tilt Poker’s license suspension.

[Moskvich]

Reassuring email today from Boyle Poker:

"Have you been hearing about some “major” poker websites hitting the rocks recently? We’d like to assure all our valued customers that this is not, and never will be, the case with Boylepoker.com.

Boylepoker.com are licensed and regulated by Alderney Gambling Control Commission who set the highest standards of security and integrity with which their licensees must comply, guaranteeing that your funds are totally secure."

Well that's OK then!

[TRIP5]

FTP considering move to Kahnawake for gaming licence for none USA players

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/06/full-tilt-looks-kgc/

xx

[SuperJez]

FTP considering move to Kahnawake for gaming licence for none USA players

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/06/full-tilt-looks-kgc/

xx

doubt they reopen as they were before but under a new licence.  If they do everyone will just mass withdraw and it will be pointless.

[TightEnd]

Full Tilt Poker Scenarios

Pokeraddict
Yesterday at 03:10 PM

    As I type this Full Tilt Poker's software client is down. Players are panicking and rumors are running rampant in the online poker world. The Alderney Gambling Control Commission suspended Full Tilt Poker's license to operate their online poker room in Alderney. This was done ten weeks after Black Friday when Full Tilt Poker pulled out of the U.S. market. During those ten weeks U.S. players have not been paid. Players outside the U.S. have reported their own payout problems. In fact Moneybookers just dropped Full Tilt Poker as a client so Moneybookers is no longer available as a cashout or deposit option on Full Tilt Poker. This has put further pressure on Full Tilt.

    There are quite a few ways the Full Tilt Poker situation could play out. At this point it is all guesswork but with some scenarios are more likely than others.

    Reopening Under Another Licensing Jurisdiction

    To me the most likely scenario is Full Tilt Poker reopening under another gaming commission. The KGC seems to be the most likely. Full Tilt Poker once held a license there. It seems that getting a license there again could be the easiest and fastest way to reopen as a licensed online poker room. Another option would be to get licensed in Malta. This would be better for players in high tax EU countries as players in those countries would likely be unwilling to play on Full Tilt Poker if it meant having to pay taxes they could otherwise avoid. The downside of this is that they could be offline for a longer period of time trying to gain licensing approval. Full Tilt getting licensed in a legitimate licensing jurisdiction could be impossible considering Full Tilt is in default on what some have speculated is over $100 million to U.S. players.

    Reopen Without a License

    This would be the fastest way for Full Tilt Poker to reopen. It would come with several problems though. While players in the U.S. have played on unlicensed gambling sites typically players in the EU, Canada and Asia, have the luxury of playing online poker at licensed poker rooms. This could further hurt Full Tilt's reputation. I feel players would be unwilling to play on an unlicensed Full Tilt Poker. There could also be problems with payment processors. It will be harder to find reputable payment processors for an unlicensed gambling company. Processors that would be willing to work with Full Tilt would charge them more for their services.

    Full Tilt Poker could also have the problem with having to relocate their business. Not only is that expensive it would be difficult for many employees to move to another country, especially without notice. There is also the issue of reliable internet. There are few if any places in the world that Full Tilt could operate their poker room unlicensed where there is a reliable internet structure in place that could handle their volume.

    Merge With Another Online Poker Room

    Full Tilt Poker's market value just took quite a hit. This could be the opportunity for a well established online poker room to come in and save the day. The software Full Tilt owns is one of the best in the industry. They also own Rush Poker which could be a valuable asset to a competing online poker room. The brand name still has value as well. If a competing online poker room came in to bailout Full Tilt Poker the goodwill could be priceless. This scenario could leave U.S. players out in the cold though. If a non U.S. gaming company took over Full Tilt Poker U.S. players would be at the bottom of the list of people to get paid. There could also be legal problems with an online poker room buying Full Tilt without going through a bankruptcy process as there could still be legal issues in the U.S. for the company.

    Brick and Mortar Casino Takeover

    U.S. brick and mortar casinos are becoming more and more optimistic that there will be online poker in the U.S. soon. If a U.S. brick and mortar casino company took over Full Tilt Poker and bailed them out then there would be a lot of positives to come out of that. The casino company would walk into a turnkey online poker room that is the second largest online poker room in the world. If this company were able to get U.S. players paid they would add goodwill to their brand name. When the U.S. players that finally received their Full Tilt money visited Las Vegas the casino company that bailed them out would likely be their first choice for hotel and casino play. When online poker became regulated the casino company would already have a strong brand name in the U.S. which would give them a big edge over competing casino companies.

    A brick and mortar company in the U.S. would likely have to receive approval from the Department of Justice to make this purchase. This would shield them from the liability Full Tilt Poker faces in the U.S. including the fine of up to $1 billion. I have to wonder if the DOJ would approve a U.S. company paying off Full Tilt without the DOJ getting their money first.

    Wait for Alderney Regulatory Hearing

    Full Tilt might wait until the regulatory hearing on July 26 to see if they can get reinstated. By doing this their software would be offline for a month. This would be devastating to their reputation. Being closed a month could mean the same to players as being completely out of business. It would seem likely the regulatory hearing would bring the same result too, Full Tilt could wait a month to find out they lost their license. There would seem to be little motivation for Alderney to change their mind. If Full Tilt is not operating then U.S. players would still not be paid and players outside the U.S. would not be paid either since their license suspension does not allow for that.

    Full Tilt Could Close

    While I feel this is not likely it is possible Full Tilt could be under so much red ink that there is no way out. If the value of Full Tilt's software and patents are worth less than the balances owed to players then Full Tilt would be technically bankrupt. I doubt that is the case but only the people who have first hand knowledge of Full Tilt's book know for sure.

    Other Issues Related to License Suspension

    Timing of the Suspension

    The timing of the license suspension leaves me to wonder what happened to cause this. There is no doubt other companies licensed in Alderney had to be unhappy with sharing a licensing jurisdiction with a company that had allegedly been involved in bank fraud where the owners were in serious legal trouble. Those operators were also sharing a licensing jurisdiction with a company that could not pay U.S. players and were having problems paying players outside the U.S. It is certainly possible pressure from other licensed companies forced Alderney's hand.

    Alderney has to know that this has hurt all player's chances of getting paid. I have to think that Alderney has been hoping that Full Tilt could figure out a way out of the hole they were in. Considering this situation could reflect bad on Alderney I feel they wanted to give Full Tilt every chance to make payments to players. Both Phil Ivey and Jack Binion had visited Full Tilt's office in Ireland recently. Maybe Alderney wanted to see if anything would come out of those talks. The license suspension has hurt Full Tilt's value and likely affects its ability to receive investment money from venture capitalists.

    If talks were close and Alderney jumped the gun then that could be irresponsible. In my opinion Alderney likely gave Full Tilt every chance to comply and get players paid. Alderney must feel that the situation has become hopeless and that this was the only solution to preserve their own reputation.

    Full Tilt Backup Plan

    Full Tilt Poker likely knew this was coming. Alderney had to be watching this situation closely. I feel it is safe to assume Full Tilt had received a warning from Alderney and knew at some point their license would be suspended if they did not find a resolution. Maybe Full Tilt thought they could get the money needed to continue to operate and get U.S. players paid. Even if they thought that there should have been a backup plan. Hopefully Full Tilt is working right now on that backup plan so they can get back online quickly.

    Closing Thoughts

    After two and a half months it is obvious that there are some serious liquidity issues at Full Tilt. I do not believe this is the nail in the coffin for them though. Full Tilt can save their brand and if not there is still a lot of value in their software and patents including Rush Poker. I feel the goal is to preserve Full Tilt and keep the structure as close as possible as it is today. Selling out is likely a last resort but one that I am sure is being considered more and more with every passing day