Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[TightEnd]

Tapie senior, convicted of fraud

In 1993, the same year that Olympique de Marseille won the Champions League, he was accused of fixing the match between his club and minor club Valenciennes; the motivation seemed to be that, in this way, he could save his best players for important matches and not waste their energy. His club was stripped of its French league championship, though not of the Champions League title, and later suffered a forced relegation to the second division because of financial irregularities widely blamed on Tapie. In 1994, Tapie was put under criminal investigation for complicity of corruption and subornation of witnesses. After a high profile case against public prosecutor Éric de Montgolfier, he was sentenced in 1995 by the Court of Appeals of Douai to 2 years in prison, including 8 months non-suspended and 3 years of deprivation of his civic rights. He was incarcerated for about 6 months in 1997. He sold his boat Club Med 2 to Club Méditerranée.

Bernard Tapie was also prosecuted for tax fraud.

On 30 September 2008, a French court ended a long legal battle between Tapie and the Crédit Lyonnais bank. Crédit Lyonnais had allegedly defrauded Tapie in 1993 and 1994 when it sold Adidas on his behalf to Robert Louis-Dreyfus, apparently by arranging a larger sale with Dreyfus without Tapie's knowledge. The court awarded 405 million euros to Tapie. This decision was partially overturned on 9 October 2006 by the Court of Cassation, the main court of last resort in France.[3]


How can any gaming commission award him a licence/deem him "fit and proper" if he succeeds in doing a deal with the DOJ anyway?

[boldie]

Tapie senior, convicted of fraud

In 1993, the same year that Olympique de Marseille won the Champions League, he was accused of fixing the match between his club and minor club Valenciennes; the motivation seemed to be that, in this way, he could save his best players for important matches and not waste their energy. His club was stripped of its French league championship, though not of the Champions League title, and later suffered a forced relegation to the second division because of financial irregularities widely blamed on Tapie. In 1994, Tapie was put under criminal investigation for complicity of corruption and subornation of witnesses. After a high profile case against public prosecutor Éric de Montgolfier, he was sentenced in 1995 by the Court of Appeals of Douai to 2 years in prison, including 8 months non-suspended and 3 years of deprivation of his civic rights. He was incarcerated for about 6 months in 1997. He sold his boat Club Med 2 to Club Méditerranée.

Bernard Tapie was also prosecuted for tax fraud.

On 30 September 2008, a French court ended a long legal battle between Tapie and the Crédit Lyonnais bank. Crédit Lyonnais had allegedly defrauded Tapie in 1993 and 1994 when it sold Adidas on his behalf to Robert Louis-Dreyfus, apparently by arranging a larger sale with Dreyfus without Tapie's knowledge. The court awarded 405 million euros to Tapie. This decision was partially overturned on 9 October 2006 by the Court of Cassation, the main court of last resort in France.[3]


How can any gaming commission award him a licence/deem him "fit and proper" if he succeeds in doing a deal with the DOJ anyway?

As Andrew asked, is Bernard involved? If not then there shouldn't be a problem. If he is...well..most gaming comissions are a crock of shit anyways.

[paulhouk03]

He also confirmed the site would keep the Full Tilt Poker brand: “The brand is not in question, it’s a well-known brand and the technology is widely recognized as being possibly the best in the industry. The management of the company is being questioned and it will be changed (should the takeover be concluded). I believe we have the tools necessary to once again make the site one of the leaders in the online poker sector.”

What's french for 'moron'?

He's probably right though. Players that played on FTP will flock back to it as soon as it starts up again. I've no doubt of that.

r u sure

If i ever got my money back from tilt i doubt i will paly on that site again. I may put a few hundred on it to spin it up but I will never leave 4figs + on that site.
I hope that they do sort it out tho i loved full tilt but it was so badly ran

[boldie]

He also confirmed the site would keep the Full Tilt Poker brand: “The brand is not in question, it’s a well-known brand and the technology is widely recognized as being possibly the best in the industry. The management of the company is being questioned and it will be changed (should the takeover be concluded). I believe we have the tools necessary to once again make the site one of the leaders in the online poker sector.”

What's french for 'moron'?

He's probably right though. Players that played on FTP will flock back to it as soon as it starts up again. I've no doubt of that.

r u sure

If i ever got my money back from tilt i doubt i will paly on that site again. I may put a few hundred on it to spin it up but I will never leave 4figs + on that site.
I hope that they do sort it out tho i loved full tilt but it was so badly ran

You doubt that you will play on that site again but may put a few hundred on it to spin it up?

If new people run FT then your problem with it goes away as you'll have the same software with new people running the show behind it.

Pokerplayers are idiots when it comes to keeping their own money safe online...the UB scandal showed this...The Full Tilt thing only solidifies my opinion.

[paulhouk03]

As it won't be my main site where I grind and bever gonna leave my br in there
Y should j trust the new owners when they have a history of dodgy dealings

I just want my money back and my 9 t shirts that I ordered with my travel neck cushion thing

[TightEnd]

In Forbes

A payment processor and a banker, who were indicted by federal prosecutors in April as part of a sweeping crackdown on the online poker industry in the U.S., have filed strongly-worded legal papers to fight the government’s charges, arguing online poker businesses like PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker were not gambling businesses.

John Campos, a former vice-chairman of a Utah bank that allegedly accepted a cash infusion in return for handling online poker transactions, and Chad Elie, a payment processor who is accused of deceptively facilitating the flow of funds between U.S.-based players and online poker companies, filed separate motions to dismiss all counts filed against them in federal court in Manhattan. It is the first direct assault on the April case the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan, Preet Bharara, has brought against online poker’s biggest firms, which includes the indictment of 11 individuals.

For years online poker entrepreneurs and their lawyers bet that the Department of Justice would never mount a direct case against the online poker operators offering for-money U.S. play because of the perceived vagueness surrounding whether online poker violated U.S. law. The Justice Department has long argued that offering for-money online poker play does violate U.S. law, but that position has never been put to the test. By filing four memorandums of law supporting their motions to dismiss, Campos and Elie are highlighting the obstacles the government is facing in litigating an online poker prosecution and giving the first glimpse of the battle ahead.

Campos and Elie are fighting government accusations that they violated the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, the Illegal Gambling Business Act and conspired to commit money laundering. Elie is also facing a bank and wire fraud conspiracy charge. Both men point out that the companies involved in the April indictment, PokerStars, Full Tilt and Absolute Poker, charged a fee, known as a rake, for facilitated poker betting on their web sites that was related to a peer-to-peer game in which players competed against each other and were not part of house-banked games.

“PokerStars and Full Tilt are not ‘illegal gambling businesses’ under IGBA because they are not ‘gambling businesses’ at all,” says one of the legal filings. “To be ‘engaged in the business of betting or wagering’ requires that the business has a stake in the outcome of gambling contests, and the Indictment here fails to allege that the poker companies had any such stake.”

In a 33-page memorandum, Campos, who was vice-chairman of Sun First Bank, claims the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act charges against him must be dismissed because the law exempts financial transaction providers like a Utah bank and those working on their behalf. For his part Elie filed three different memorandums supporting his motions to dismiss all charges filed against him, which he claims are part of a “flawed attempt” by the government.

The legal filings made by Campos and Elie both spend a lot of ink arguing the government’s case is baseless because poker is a game of skill and not chance—and therefore poker is not gambling. They point out that the Illegal Gambling Business Act lists nine activities regarded as gambling that do not include poker or any other card game, and claim that poker does not have much in common with the games the law cites, such as lottery or house-banked games in which the bettor has no role in the outcome like bookmaking, roulette or slot machines.  “Online poker is a game in which the outcome depends to at least some degree on skill,” one of the court filings says.

Both Campos and Elie take a poke at U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, who in congressional testimony in March said he did not know if poker was a game of chance or skill. “The common man is at a loss,” Elie argues in one of his memos.  “Indeed, the Attorney General himself has commented that determining whether poker is a game of chance is ‘beyond [his] capabilities.’”

The legal filings also make jurisdictional arguments, saying PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker conducted their businesses offshore and not in the state of New York, where the indictment is filed. The only conduct in New York was the betting and accepting of bets from the state of New York, which is not sufficient to be seen as conduct carried out in the state, they claim. Elie hammers home this point in one of his court filings, saying the government is improperly using New York state law to bring federal charges of violating the Illegal Gambling Business Act. Campos and Elie argue the money laundering conspiracy charges must be dropped because they are based on bogus allegations of illegal gambling business activity.

Another notable argument can be found in Elie’s effort to undermine the government’s claim that he conspired to commit bank and wire fraud by getting banks and financial firms to process online poker transactions, disguising them to look like they were unrelated to online poker. The April indictment filed by federal prosecutors in Manhattan, which includes charges against two founders of PokerStars and Full Tilt, rely to a large degree on this kind of alleged financial wrongdoing. In a 13-page memorandum, Elie says that to make its case the government has to prove the alleged deception would have caused the banks harm or loss while the transactions in question actually profited the banks. Elie, who is alleged to have started committing bank fraud in 2009, makes a big deal over the fact that he and his partner made a $3.4 million investment in struggling Sun First, which earned $1.6 million in fees processing transactions with Elie’s payment processing firm. “Elie invested in and paid fees to banks, causing them actually to gain money as a result of the payment processing activities.”

In filing their legal arguments in federal court, Campos and Elie have become unlikely warriors in the long battle over online poker in America, making one of the most direct challenges ever against the Justice Department’s position on online poker.

[tikay]

"Where did your money go?". (Allegedly).

http://pokerfuse.com/features/infographics/full-tilt-where-did-your-money-go/

[TightEnd]

Poker Strategy/Mr Carter:

A deal to rescue Full Tilt Poker could involve offering equity stakes in the company, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal today. The proposed takeover by Groupe Bernard Tapie will require that over $300 million in player funds are reimbursed.

Yesterday Benham Dayanim, an attorney for Larent Tapie (Son of Bernard Tapie), confirmed that it has not been determined how large an investment would be made, and that 'the Tapies may address Full Tilt's liabilities by offering equity in a revived company to poker players owed the most money'.

Another new piece of information from the feature has suggested that Bernard Tapie may ask the current owners of the site to invest money back into Full Tilt, but while still relinquishing any managerial responsibility.

Groupe Bernard Tapie met with representatives from the US Department of Justice to start negotiating the potential takeover. They will also need to have a satisfactory meeting with the AGCC or a new regulator in order to invest in Full Tilt Poker.

[boldie]

Poker Strategy/Mr Carter:

A deal to rescue Full Tilt Poker could involve offering equity stakes in the company, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal today. The proposed takeover by Groupe Bernard Tapie will require that over $300 million in player funds are reimbursed.

Yesterday Benham Dayanim, an attorney for Larent Tapie (Son of Bernard Tapie), confirmed that it has not been determined how large an investment would be made, and that 'the Tapies may address Full Tilt's liabilities by offering equity in a revived company to poker players owed the most money'.

Another new piece of information from the feature has suggested that Bernard Tapie may ask the current owners of the site to invest money back into Full Tilt, but while still relinquishing any managerial responsibility.

Groupe Bernard Tapie met with representatives from the US Department of Justice to start negotiating the potential takeover. They will also need to have a satisfactory meeting with the AGCC or a new regulator in order to invest in Full Tilt Poker.

So Flushy would own tilt and blonde.

[Bongo]

Sounds like they're happy to rescue FTP as long as it's not with their money.

[TightEnd]

The Alderney Gambling Control Commission has released a new statement in relation to the Full Tilt Poker saga. The AGCC confirmed that they no longer have the power to “intermediate or arbitrate on player issues or disputes with Full Tilt” but instead gave a list of options that players may wish to follow instead.

"1. Full Tilt has been requested to provide a specific player contact: this is awaited and will be incorporated here upon receipt.


2. Any player who believes they are a victim of crime, as a result of their dealings with Full Tilt, should in the first instance contact their own local police in their country of residence and report the matter to them. These reports will then be co-ordinated centrally.


3. It is understood that a number of civil actions have been initiated by players against Full Tilt, some as class actions representing multiple players by UK, US and Canadian lawyers. Details of the firms concerned can be found through internet search."

[tikay]

http://www.pokerlistings.com/details-emerging-about-full-tilt-acquisition-36228

[Bongo]

What the Group is looking for, he indicated, is a commitment from either the DOJ, current management or other investors to inject all or part of the money needed to repay players

Sounds a lot like I said above

[tikay]

Nice piece from PokerScout.....

The online poker boom is dead. To some, especially in the US, that statement ranks in obviousness right next to "Full Tilt Poker wasn't a well-managed company." The Department of Justice has effectively shut down over 90% of online poker in the US, and is giving what's left the evil eye. America is the birthplace of poker and its biggest market, so of course online poker is dead, right?

Not so fast. Poker has proven its appeal to a broad geographic market over the years. So much so that PokerStars lost only a quarter of its players in the aftermath of Black Friday. Europe, Canada, Australia and even Latin America took up the sport well before Black Friday, and most of those players still have the freedom to play.

In fact, a wave of regulation is sweeping Europe, allowing players to feel safe and comfortable playing at online poker sites that are ostensibly subject to licensing and oversight. There is no reason for online poker to be declining in those markets. Quite the opposite.

But it is. To be more specific, traffic data shows that the seasonal uptick expected at this time of year, which has happened with regularity for years, is not happening this year. The post-summer boom happens as players return from vacations and head indoors, returning to school or work and sitting in front of their computers. In the last few years, the seasonal increase has ranged from 3% to 10%. This year has seen a 7% drop instead.

[kinboshi]

I blame climate change.