THEORY: Cash turn line

[pleno1]

I'm sitting trying to sleep when I start thinking about poker strategy quite deeply (poker geek I know ) and just thought of something which may be very very bad, or good. If this is already a strategy then cool nvm but would like to hear peoples thoughts.

Going to the turn against thinking players and we have the initiative and decide to bet we should have a balanced range. Depending on stack sizes it is generally accepted that betting the turn to set up a pot sized river shove is the optimal line. I won't go into this as to understand my next jibberish you kinda have to understand this concept well.

Ok, so what I was thinking is how about in the same situation always betting the turn so we set up a 1.3x pot shove on the river. As long as we are balanced I think this could be very good as he wont be able to call of as light profitably. (Or does it?)

For times when we know that we are betting turn to set up a shove on river but ALWAYS CHECKING BACK ON RIVER IF HE CALLS, it saves us money on our turn bet.

When "scare" cards come that we would shove with a pot sized bet left, it increases our fold equity because he wont be able to call of as light profitably.

Please let me know your thoughts?

[outragous76]

go to bed

[pleno1]

[01:34:32] Taylor Caby:well if you are bluffing more often than you are not bluffing when you bet the turn and everything else stays the same then you will risk less to win the same so it's better
[01:35:05] Taylor Caby: i'm not sure it's safe to say everything else stays the same
[01:35:47] Taylor Caby: i don't know. that's an interesting thought

[George2Loose]

go to bed

[pleno1]

go to bed

Ok, went to bed, hoping you two did too and can now add something productive to the thread

[GreekStein]

go to bed

Ok, went to bed, hoping you two did too and can now add something productive to the thread

this is pha, gl  getting anything from those two clowns

[NoflopsHomer]

I haz GreenPlastic on Skype brag post imo.

[pleno1]

I haz GreenPlastic on Skype brag post imo.

lol was waiting for that.

[SuuPRlim]

Basically what you are saying is when we are barrelling three times 100bb's deep, where often the second bet is sized to set up a third bet where we can get our stack in.

This question is about how we size our turn bets yeah? I think the subject is two dependent on board texture to be tackled so  broadly, we're not necessarily trying to play for stacks every hand, just trying to make our opponents make bad calls/folds?  On wet textures we're going to want to bet bigger to set up a smaller shove often, as there are more hands our villain can continue with, plus he can make bad turn calls with certain draws often, and with a weaker range we can jam the river for a smaller %pot and still have similar FE

On drier textures we probably want to be betting the turn smaller as his calling range will be narrower, and bet whatever amount is best on the river, if we are betting drier textures on the turn to set up 1.3x river shoves then we need to be value betting VERY good on the end (not polarise ourselves) other wise it becomes an easy call - so we cant be checking back too much marginal stuff like ur OP suggests and ofc need to be bluffing some as well.

If the point is that in general in these spots a smaller turn bet to set up a bigger river bet if we chk the river back a ton is cheaper than an "average" turn bet to set up a 100% pot shove then I'm not sure I like the strategy, we save money on our turn bets when we bet turn and give up river, but we lose money when they call turn fold river in the long run because out bluffs needs to work a higher % of the time and when we take the line for value we miss Xbb's value on the turn...

I think it puts a lot of pressure on your river Vbets, vbetting too thin/not thin enough will be expensive if we are jamming 130% pot every time.

but having said that the idea has a lot of merit imo for the reasons you suggesed in ur OP, however I think it's better served in spots where you want to polarise ur perceived range on the turn and if you are balanced and Vbetting well could force villains into many bad calls/folds both on turn and river

[outragous76]

I would add a little something to this, which is the equity of playing for stacks against the equity of a smaller bet.

Oftentimes by the river, we have set up a play to jam assuming they call worse! I find that jamming can infact induce a fold, which is not what we want. Therefore a more careful bet leaving your villain with say 10bbs will often get paid as it removes the "I'm all in" tag. So although there Are times where we leave $ on the table this is balanced off by the times where we get paid rather than folds

[pleno1]

I would add a little something to this, which is the equity of playing for stacks against the equity of a smaller bet.

Oftentimes by the river, we have set up a play to jam assuming they call worse! I find that jamming can infact induce a fold, which is not what we want. Therefore a more careful bet leaving your villain with say 10bbs will often get paid as it removes the "I'm all in" tag. So although there Are times where we leave $ on the table this is balanced off by the times where we get paid rather than folds

that is a great point

[titaniumbean]

[01:34:32] Taylor Caby:well if you are bluffing more often than you are not bluffing when you bet the turn and everything else stays the same then you will risk less to win the same so it's better
[01:35:05] Taylor Caby: i'm not sure it's safe to say everything else stays the same
[01:35:47] Taylor Caby: i don't know. that's an interesting thought

SICK BARG

Does he even play anymore?


Does this mean  you also have the sicko that is Muddywater on your skype?!

[SuuPRlim]

[01:34:32] Taylor Caby:well if you are bluffing more often than you are not bluffing when you bet the turn and everything else stays the same then you will risk less to win the same so it's better
[01:35:05] Taylor Caby: i'm not sure it's safe to say everything else stays the same
[01:35:47] Taylor Caby: i don't know. that's an interesting thought

SICK BARG

Does he even play anymore?


Does this mean  you also have the sicko that is Muddywater on your skype?!

yh plays all the time on fulltiltpoker.com

Oh wait....

[pleno1]

[01:34:32] Taylor Caby:well if you are bluffing more often than you are not bluffing when you bet the turn and everything else stays the same then you will risk less to win the same so it's better
[01:35:05] Taylor Caby: i'm not sure it's safe to say everything else stays the same
[01:35:47] Taylor Caby: i don't know. that's an interesting thought

SICK BARG

Does he even play anymore?


Does this mean  you also have the sicko that is Muddywater on your skype?!

Nah he doesnt play/think about poker anymore, more business minded.

[titaniumbean]

[01:34:32] Taylor Caby:well if you are bluffing more often than you are not bluffing when you bet the turn and everything else stays the same then you will risk less to win the same so it's better
[01:35:05] Taylor Caby: i'm not sure it's safe to say everything else stays the same
[01:35:47] Taylor Caby: i don't know. that's an interesting thought

SICK BARG

Does he even play anymore?


Does this mean  you also have the sicko that is Muddywater on your skype?!

Nah he doesnt play/think about poker anymore, more business minded.

bring back Muddywater imo, CTZ will never be the same if he leaves. Hicks ftw.