Deep PLO spot...

[SuuPRlim]

***** Hand History for Game 2760327299 ***** (IPoker)
$100.00 USD PL Omaha - Friday, May 13, 04:26:00 ET 2011
Table Magyar (No DP 200 bb min) (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: troe666 ( $392.88 USD )
Seat 6: HERO ( $803.68 USD )
Seat 10: b33rplz ( $401.96 USD )
troe666 posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
HERO posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [   ]
b33rplz raises [$3.50 USD]
troe666 calls [$3.00 USD]
HERO calls [$2.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
troe666 checks
HERO checks
b33rplz bets [$8.00 USD]
troe666 folds
HERO calls [$8.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
HERO bets [$25.00 USD]
b33rplz calls [$25.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
HERO bets [$56.50 USD]
b33rplz raises [$165.46 USD]
HERO.....

I think this is a pretty interesting river spot, I think c/c, c/f, b/c and b/f are all pretty viable

Kinda readless, had been playing HU for a while and nothing struck me as particularly bad/good about him, had him in my mind as a bit of a station, but not a solid read by any stretch

thoughts?

[Dubai]

B/c looks fine i guess

[SuuPRlim]

this defo a Vbet in ur opinion?

[Dubai]

If youre gonna lead turn i mean you prob got to b/c river

[SuuPRlim]

If youre gonna lead turn i mean you prob got to b/c river

yh i agree 100% - although I actually think I get called by AA a lot

[boldie]

 no problem with anything thusfar. Bet call and wince when he flips the Aces IMO

[SuuPRlim]

no problem with anything thusfar. Bet call and wince when he flips the Aces IMO

you think he raises AA** on the river? considering Im repping 34 pretty well I assumed his river raise is polarized to 34 or prolly missed spades?

If he is raising AA I like bet call a lot less....

[WotRTheChances]

Pretty sure its a b/c or c/c spot. You say c/f is viable? Surely not if b/c is arguably the optimal play? I think you are right in saying he wakes up with 34XX or AsXsXX a lot here, AAXX seems unlikely given your line, as your range to b/c here is not that wide, although cant be entirely ruled out. b/c > c/c > b/f > c/f for me. (NB i'm relatively new to PLO, so my understanding of the spot could be way out).

[SuuPRlim]

well I listed c/f as an option, and theoretically it is a viable option IMO. it really depends I think on how we think he behaves with his value range OTR...

I think it's safe to say the only hand that raises the river for VALUE is 34 as the hand plays. His range has a lot of A*** 2pairs, AA** and Im pretty confident he would just call these hands as my range is pretty polarized to 34/air as well OTR because I dont really have any sets in my range (it's complete fluke I happen to have one here) and most 2p's I would be bluffing with on the river....

Because my range is kinda polarised and his is weighted towards bluff catcher hands (2p's/sets) I think it would be bad not to bet which is why i hate c/c or c/f.....
Once he's been chked to I thin he bets VERY few combo's of no 34 for value - I dont think he even VBETS AK here, so depending on how often you think he is bluffing is the difference between c/c and c/f but I think its pretty much the same (i'd lean to a c/c because thats just what I do when people have a ridic thin value range)

for the same reason I think b/c and b/f are pretty similar because the decision to call or fold is basically the argument between how often he a) flats 34 on the turn vs how often he b) bluffs the river (assuming he does each an = amount it would be a b/c as he has many more combo's of viable bluffs than 34**'s) but I suspect most people would raise the turn with 34 a vast majority of the time - even though IMO it is a bad raise in this specific spot with stacks as there are with me repping 34 OTT myself... So i'd lean to a bet call on that logic.

I think the more credit I give him the more of a b/f it is....

b/c - b/f - c/f - c/c imo although I think chking this river would be terrible.

[Patonius2000]

You absolutely cannot check this river without a read that he'l never call with worse and turn hands in to bluffs when you check. That is a fairly ridiculous player that does that so you probably need some extensive notes (hey I don't call a bet without top set+ but i'l bluff 6789ss when checked to!). So anyway like you say your perceived range looks fairly polarized when you cc lead lead here and you'l get looked up by two pair a load so whatever just betfold. I mean it's not an easy betfold but the problem with calling is that most of the hands he can bluff with have too much SD value to bluff with because you are so polarized. In other words, combinatronically, it is very unlikely he is bluffing.

I'd probably 3b pre and I would have led flop or cc and checked turn also. I don't think doing this check call leading is bad necessarily I just haven't experimented a whole lot with it and because of this I often just play it safe and respect the initiative when stacks get this deep.

[ACE2M]

You absolutely cannot check this river without a read that he'l never call with worse and turn hands in to bluffs when you check. That is a fairly ridiculous player that does that so you probably need some extensive notes (hey I don't call a bet without top set+ but i'l bluff 6789ss when checked to!). So anyway like you say your perceived range looks fairly polarized when you cc lead lead here and you'l get looked up by two pair a load so whatever just betfold. I mean it's not an easy betfold but the problem with calling is that most of the hands he can bluff with have too much SD value to bluff with because you are so polarized. In other words, combinatronically, it is very unlikely he is bluffing.

I'd probably 3b pre and I would have led flop or cc and checked turn also. I don't think doing this check call leading is bad necessarily I just haven't experimented a whole lot with it and because of this I often just play it safe and respect the initiative when stacks get this deep.

teach me

[SuuPRlim]

yh, I felt at the time this play would have slightly more merit vs a random, c/c here would mean c/f pretty much every non-spade or K river which wouldn't be terrible but I feel the merit to this line is that I win here vs most of his air (unless he wants to raise my turn donk without 34 which I never give randoms at 100plo credit for) and all the air in his range wins the pot from me on blank rivers if he bets so there is decent equity to be gained from that, plus I might be able to take him off a 2p hand like 5678/A574 etc on the river some % with this line. one reasonable problem is there are some really bad cards for my range OTR /7s/8's which Id still barrel and on, and board pairing cards im prolly gonna have to c/f, or chk/showdown vs a random As*s** hand which sucks a lot imo

it's a funky river spot cos it looks like I have 34 exclusively in my value range and the rest of my range is pretty much air - i never have a set here ever really (unless I have a hand like 4455 and take a line like this to try polarize myself OTR trying to max value from 2p's but cant expect him to think i'd do that, or expect myself to do it hardly ever lol) and cant think of any AK** combo id have gotten here with so it's just complete accident my value range is has 2 additional combo's that are completely random.

[SuuPRlim]

teach me

tell the world about the schooling you got at 50plo HU on the train to london Rob, dnt be shy

[TheFallen]

most of the hands he can bluff with have too much SD value to bluff with because you are so polarized.

pretty much that. looks like a easy bet/fold to me.

i like ur line tho

[SuuPRlim]

ty for comments everyone. prompted some cool discussions.

as it happens I did call, the reaosns I talked myself into it were a) he timebanked RIGHT down which made me a bit suspicious. b) I thought this player would raise 34 majority OTT and wouldn't bluff with As*s** so I felt like im gonna see str8/non nut FD or 34 only and c) I'm a huge calling station and never fold.

he showed  ** and I won.