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Author Topic: 3b lolz  (Read 6512 times)
Rupert
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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2011, 12:14:28 AM »

Ye bet flop
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skolsuper
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 01:44:15 AM »

yeah loving the 3b pre, disagree with the poster who said 56s 78s are better hands to do it with, although probs do it with those hands too.

on the flop i bet 1550, don't mind the check actually given your SPR

river is tough, think i shove too, you have a really good hand.
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2011, 02:06:51 AM »

its a really wierd line from the oppo, its kinda fun to chk call turns and donk rivers, I never really ever do it bluffing though cos people never fold when shit's suspicious

speshly live when people LOVE to "trap" suprised he doesnt chk/r QQ/KQ
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DMorgan
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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2011, 02:14:16 AM »

The four of us should probably actually play poker rather than grind PHA all day
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Rupert
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2011, 02:15:45 AM »

ban for trolling
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Pinchop73
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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2011, 09:25:51 AM »

I'm never calling the river here, I'm either off home or I'm moving on up with my 60bb's.

His line is really strange for his range. His line makes total sense if he has me crushed, but I just couldn't see what he was crushing me with. Case K is possible but improbable so happy to take my chance against KA/KQ, I'm almost certain he would reraise with QQ. I have pretty much anything else in his range crushed. I felt a rock could easily be taking this line with AA/AQ/JJ/TT/99 as he 'must be ahead' having seen me check the flop, and then bet the turn on a steal.

Turns out the young man had flatted me oop with pocket 5's. gg sir, gg.
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cambridgealex
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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2011, 11:21:19 AM »

I'm never calling the river here, I'm either off home or I'm moving on up with my 60bb's.

Don't understand this logic. You mean you're either folding or you're shoving?
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Pinchop73
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« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2011, 01:00:24 PM »

I'm never calling the river here, I'm either off home or I'm moving on up with my 60bb's.

Don't understand this logic. You mean you're either folding or you're shoving?

The only time I'd consider folding in this spot is if a T, J or A land.

I'm never ever just flatting here. I'm either way ahead or way behind, with 2/3s of my stack committed if I call, I'd prefer to shove (with the small %chance of picking up a fold, I still have to factor it in) and take maximum value if I'm ahead, rather than keep my tournament life alive by calling in case I am behind.

75bigs or bust (with a small % chance of also taking a big pot uncontested) vs 55bigs or 10bigs. Guess a lot of people choose the later. I'm not one of them.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 01:18:04 PM by Pinchop73 » Logged

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Solaris
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2011, 01:29:29 PM »

I'm never calling the river here, I'm either off home or I'm moving on up with my 60bb's.

If this is the way you approach poker, you need to have a serious rethink.

What range of hands do you give your opponent that calls a river shove? Because the only hands I can give him are one's that crush us. The mere fact you then say
Quote
I'm either way ahead or way behind
to justify a shove is all wrong. Your opponent is capable of attempting to value bet both hands that beat us and hand's that don't, but he will almost never ever call with a worse hand meaning that is absolutely zero point in shoving.

Your reasoning for not flatting re: not wanting to play a 10bb stack is flawed and quite frankly stupid.
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Boba Fett
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« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2011, 05:51:25 PM »

What are you expecting a shove to get called by that you beat?
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Pinchop73
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« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2011, 06:53:38 PM »

He could easily be value betting AA (unlikely aces but I have to keep them in there), AQ, JJ, TT, 99 which are deffo hands in his range. As long as he can't put me on a K (which he may struggle to do given my line) then he's ahead. Could also be a blocker bet to try and get to showdown with these hands.

He's far too committed to justify folding these hands after I come over the top for not a great deal more. If he does fold then I take the pot down uncontested, nice.

Hands that crush us are obv 55. But there's no way I can see him flatting this pre oop.

AK and QQ he's certainly 4betting after what I saw he shoved on Pizzecato in an earlier hand for a decent amount of bb's. Especially as he's oop. No way he's called pre and come this far with 22.

That only leaves KQ to crush us. Not many combos of this hand left huh. To me, that leaves his range behind what I have as there are more combo's of my assigned value range for him than combos that crush us.

If he has played one of these hands trickily then I'm happy saying gg after my shove.

Just my thoughts anyway. If anybody's willing to point out exactly why my thinking is flawed then I'm all ears. Smiley

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Solaris
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« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2011, 07:21:13 PM »

He could easily be value betting AA (unlikely aces but I have to keep them in there), AQ, JJ, TT, 99 which are deffo hands in his range. As long as he can't put me on a K (which he may struggle to do given my line) then he's ahead. Could also be a blocker bet to try and get to showdown with these hands.

He's far too committed to justify folding these hands after I come over the top for not a great deal more. If he does fold then I take the pot down uncontested, nice.

Hands that crush us are obv 55. But there's no way I can see him flatting this pre oop.

AK and QQ he's certainly 4betting after what I saw he shoved on Pizzecato in an earlier hand for a decent amount of bb's. Especially as he's oop. No way he's called pre and come this far with 22.

That only leaves KQ to crush us. Not many combos of this hand left huh. To me, that leaves his range behind what I have as there are more combo's of my assigned value range for him than combos that crush us.

If he has played one of these hands trickily then I'm happy saying gg after my shove.

Just my thoughts anyway. If anybody's willing to point out exactly why my thinking is flawed then I'm all ears. Smiley

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These are your words not mine.

Quote
So I 3bet to get the fold. I 3bet small, as I knew that if he did have a premium hand he would certainly come back over the top

That pretty much rules out AA, AK, QQ and JJ (JJ is close). He probably flats 10s through to two spades (given that he's flatted , he's flatting every pair it would seem).

Villain pretty much never ever donk leads for 4k on the river with AQ, 10s or worse. Never. You seem to be forgetting he's donk leading the river. He can never ever be bluffing here, his line represents no sort of missed draw; therefore what is he really going to be doing that with? If he has AQ he's almost certainly check calling the river.

I really don't think you've given the strength of his possible holdings on the river enough thought. There's very few value betting hands in there which makes the river shove terrible.

This idea of "go big or go home" that you seem to have with regards to the river shove is a losing play over time. Ask any player you respect for their opinion (and who is a winning player) and I'd be amazed if they advocated a shove here.

I find a fold nearly impossible due to pot odds etc, but it's an easy call and when he shows the hand that he does, I then start to consider the next spot available to me to get my stack in. Shoving is just bad. No doubt about it.
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2011, 07:53:00 PM »

The four of us should probably actually play poker rather than grind PHA all day

Keys told me to quit
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DMorgan
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« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2011, 12:59:12 AM »

Wanna go halves on a fish and chip shop instead?
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pleno1
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« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2011, 05:13:20 AM »

river is a super easy snap call. were good almost always but he never calls with worse and we can use our river rep later on in live poker which is important, i.e jamming river with weak showdown as a bluff w/blockers. We also get to see what he's calling 3b's with. Opposite side of the coin is people dont see we are 3b k9ss.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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