Live feeds and hole cards: Ethics and considerations

[MANTIS01]

A common situation cropped up last night that reminded me of this thread.

Half way thru the night my table broke and my new seat was directly to the left of my mate Gareth I told you about, and this turned into great fun and japes. As we are getting down to the nitty gritty of the comp Gareth played a big pot with a serious looking young dude in seat 3. The board ran out broadway hearts and Gareth took the pot away on the river when his oppo who bet flop/turn check sigh-folded the river. As Gaz is mucking he can't resist showing me the  . Ha ha Gareth you are tez. But this seemed to be a big problem for the very serious people at our table. Everybody wanted to see his cards. But Gareth said nah lads and slowly pushed his cards to the muck. People started getting excited and the kid in seat 3 who hadn't said a word all night screamed in a high pitch voice SHOW ONE SHOW ALL and this mantra was repeated about one hundred times by players in various states of agitation. lol. The dealer then squashed Gareth's hand into the felt as it approached the muck preveneting it moving any further. Ha ha ha. The other players were like chimpanzee's at this point bouncing up and down on their knuckles chattering their teeth and shouting show one show all. Gareth knows he has to show and is just having jokes so flips his "flush". The kid in seat 3 who folded his hand announces he KNEW Gareth was bluffing. Ha ha, just a normal common scene in live poker.

Anyway, why can't Gareth show just me his hand? What's wrong with these people? Why did they get so fecking agitated about just me seeing? It's just one hand and it's in the history books now. I don't get it. Gareth could have whispered in my ear what he had and I would have the same info. But cos he showed me everyone must see. Strange rule really.

[George2Loose]

A common situation cropped up last night that reminded me of this thread.

Half way thru the night my table broke and my new seat was directly to the left of my mate Gareth I told you about, and this turned into great fun and japes. As we are getting down to the nitty gritty of the comp Gareth played a big pot with a serious looking young dude in seat 3. The board ran out broadway hearts and Gareth took the pot away on the river when his oppo who bet flop/turn check sigh-folded the river. As Gaz is mucking he can't resist showing me the  . Ha ha Gareth you are tez. But this seemed to be a big problem for the very serious people at our table. Everybody wanted to see his cards. But Gareth said nah lads and slowly pushed his cards to the muck. People started getting excited and the kid in seat 3 who hadn't said a word all night screamed in a high pitch voice SHOW ONE SHOW ALL and this mantra was repeated about one hundred times by players in various states of agitation. lol. The dealer then squashed Gareth's hand into the felt as it approached the muck preveneting it moving any further. Ha ha ha. The other players were like chimpanzee's at this point bouncing up and down on their knuckles chattering their teeth and shouting show one show all. Gareth knows he has to show and is just having jokes so flips his "flush". The kid in seat 3 who folded his hand announces he KNEW Gareth was bluffing. Ha ha, just a normal common scene in live poker.

Anyway, why can't Gareth show just me his hand? What's wrong with these people? Why did they get so fecking agitated about just me seeing? It's just one hand and it's in the history books now. I don't get it. Gareth could have whispered in my ear what he had and I would have the same info. But cos he showed me everyone must see. Strange rule really.

What's the reason behind the show one show all rule?

[Boba Fett]

Seriously?  How is it the same situation?  BTW - Players who try to show their hand to just their friends and then muck are beyond annoying

[MANTIS01]

A common situation cropped up last night that reminded me of this thread.

Half way thru the night my table broke and my new seat was directly to the left of my mate Gareth I told you about, and this turned into great fun and japes. As we are getting down to the nitty gritty of the comp Gareth played a big pot with a serious looking young dude in seat 3. The board ran out broadway hearts and Gareth took the pot away on the river when his oppo who bet flop/turn check sigh-folded the river. As Gaz is mucking he can't resist showing me the  . Ha ha Gareth you are tez. But this seemed to be a big problem for the very serious people at our table. Everybody wanted to see his cards. But Gareth said nah lads and slowly pushed his cards to the muck. People started getting excited and the kid in seat 3 who hadn't said a word all night screamed in a high pitch voice SHOW ONE SHOW ALL and this mantra was repeated about one hundred times by players in various states of agitation. lol. The dealer then squashed Gareth's hand into the felt as it approached the muck preveneting it moving any further. Ha ha ha. The other players were like chimpanzee's at this point bouncing up and down on their knuckles chattering their teeth and shouting show one show all. Gareth knows he has to show and is just having jokes so flips his "flush". The kid in seat 3 who folded his hand announces he KNEW Gareth was bluffing. Ha ha, just a normal common scene in live poker.

Anyway, why can't Gareth show just me his hand? What's wrong with these people? Why did they get so fecking agitated about just me seeing? It's just one hand and it's in the history books now. I don't get it. Gareth could have whispered in my ear what he had and I would have the same info. But cos he showed me everyone must see. Strange rule really.

What's the reason behind the show one show all rule?

sorry for being long-winded George

[MANTIS01]

Seriously?  How is it the same situation?  BTW - Players who try to show their hand to just their friends and then muck are beyond annoying

I'm not going to just give you the answer Boba. I want you to work it out for yourself.

But I do agree Gareth is beyond annoying.

[GreekStein]

Its not the same situation at all mantis and your friend sounds equally toolish as those you describe.

[George2Loose]

Mantis are they planning on introducing live streaming in the 10 rebuy in Walsall?

[MANTIS01]

Its not the same situation at all mantis and your friend sounds equally toolish as those you describe.

In seriousness Gareth isn't a tool mate. The reason he did that whole pantomine was to garner the very serious reaction he got from the very serious players at the table. Seat 3 has just been staring and shuffling chips all moody and it was fitting that he got his chain pulled like that. Happy for you to explain why it's so very different thou.

[GreekStein]

Its different because you're allowed to shuffle chips and be moody at the table.

You're not allowed to show one person your cards and not everyone.

I don't see why he felt the need to yank anyone's chain.

[MANTIS01]

Its different because you're allowed to shuffle chips and be moody at the table.

You're not allowed to show one person your cards and not everyone.

I don't see why he felt the need to yank anyone's chain.

Why aren't you allowed to show just one person your cards?

I make him yank chains and am generally a bad influence on him. We shouldn't be doing it though especially with people so serious as it's wrong and not funny.

[George2Loose]

So on the one hand you're saying it's unfair that Stelios has no access to the net and can't get the same info as other players and on the other you're saying cos you and Gareth are mates he should be able to give you info on his hand but no one else at the table?

[Solaris]

So on the one hand you're saying it's unfair that Stelios has no access to the net and can't get the same info as other players and on the other you're saying cos you and Gareth are mates he should be able to give you info on his hand but no one else at the table?

What's the difference between 2 out of 9 players having access to all the hands being played via friends watching online and 2 players showing each other only their hands but not anyone else?

Or are we saying that it's wrong to do the latter when it's easy to open your hand up and show everyone? Yet if you don't have access to the live feed and friends who are able to watch it and report back to you, then it's tough shit?

[MANTIS01]

So on the one hand you're saying it's unfair that Stelios has no access to the net and can't get the same info as other players and on the other you're saying cos you and Gareth are mates he should be able to give you info on his hand but no one else at the table?

Yeah I think I should deffo be able to see Gareth's hand when nobody else can. You see I don't need to see hole cards to know if a player is tight, is liable to fold his blinds, is only trying to ladder or is the most aggressive player on the table. Also as you would expect the dynamics of the table changed as it became short handed and the quality of play meant a blind may be defended with A5s then the same hand would be folded in the cut off, in other words the players adapted and played big pairs and took opportunities to raise differently depending on stack size, position etc, how they played a hand 30 minutes or 1 hour before was irrelevant and anyone who thought that knowing that a player bluffed during a certain hand was going to help them make a decision later would have been disappointed. You can pick up a lot more from watching to see how a player bets, whether he cuts the chips down or stacks them up, how he sits in his chair after making the bet, whether his pulse is visible, does he start talking, is his leg bobbing up and down or stopped when it normally is, does he stare at the flop when he has missed, glanced down at his chips prior to betting, ask a question before raising etc etc. So yeah I don't get the fuss about me seeing and not them, I mean Gareth's my friend so I should be allowed access to that info alone. Other people should get their own friends and be better prepared imo

[redarmi]

Going to guess that this is a level but neverthless will bite.  The ability to see a players hole cards changes your opinion on the way a player plays from conjecture, albeit educated, to fact.  The knowledge in this situation that Gareth had bluffed on an all heart board is much different from THINKING he might be capable of the same move.  You having that difference in certainty is an advantage which it is unfair to have.

[MANTIS01]

Going to guess that this is a level but neverthless will bite.  The ability to see a players hole cards changes your opinion on the way a player plays from conjecture, albeit educated, to fact.  The knowledge in this situation that Gareth had bluffed on an all heart board is much different from THINKING he might be capable of the same move.  You having that difference in certainty is an advantage which it is unfair to have.

Yeah but in 30 mins time that info is borderline useless to the game anyway so people should settle down about it really