Boring rule thread

[dik9]

New TDA rules have come out today.

1 rule I am unsure of is rule 46
Folding in turn to a check may result in a penalty?

Please discuss pro's and con's if you can be arsed lol

[Woodsey]

Is there some paint drying somewhere?

[GreekStein]

1 rule I am unsure of is rule 46
Folding in turn to a check may result in a penalty?

I got a warning for this at the Venetian this year.

I bet the flop as a bluff 3 way and got called in both spots. On the turn they both checked to me and I did a fold. When I asked what I'd done wrong, the floor said it was unfair as I was giving an advantage to the person who would now be last to act on the river.

[dik9]

I am not sure I agree with this rule, if it is in turn then you should have the option to fold IMO, a reason I gave to the BOD was deemed to be a "shot" lol

[zerofive]

If you're last to act, you are clearly giving an unfair advantage; seems like a good ruling. The rule already exists that if a player stands up to leave the table out of turn preflop that they should be given a warning by the dealer, and this doesn't seem too dissimilar. What are the rules on open folding first to act?

[dik9]

Thanks Jan for your response, regarding rule 46, isnt this part of the game though? As long as collusion is not suspected isn't this similar to the checking down process without stating anything.

I.e bubble time, 3 players left 2 with decent chip stacks and a small stack. Small stack last too act, BB 1st player with 72 off folds leaving player 2 to have a pop at the short stack without fear of being check raised etc. I have used this play myself so very concerned that this play may be seen as unethical. even on the Internet this is possible as many sites ask for confirmation you want to fold when facing a check.

Other examples, missed draw on river first to act playing the board

[Cf]

I agree with it. If the option to check exists I don't think you should be allowed to fold. There is no reason for doing so. All you are doing is making things easier for someone acting behind you.

eg, 3 players reach the river. Player 1 has 2nd pair or something and would rather reach showdown without putting money in. Player 2 folds. Player 3 was just gonna check back but now there's only 1 player to get through he decides to bluff. Player 2's folding has unfairly altered the action here imo.

P.S. no ruling thread is boring

[Cf]

Cos gives a nice example too. You're potentially giving position to someone who has no right to it.

I just don't see why you'd ever fold when you can check. If you're that bothered about what you hold then just don't show it at showdown. Everyone knows you have shit anyway if you're open folding.

[dik9]

Just to add I have no problem with the rule, but if I am dishing out penalties I just need confirmation of the reason behind the rule. Still not convinced enough that it warrants a penalty by declaring you have no interest In the pot (in turn).

[gatso]

if I'm last to act on the river and it's checked to me then how is my folding any different from me checking and instamucking? they are identical yet one would now get me a penalty

[Cf]

Just to add I have no problem with the rule, but if I am dishing out penalties I just need confirmation of the reason behind the rule. Still not convinced enough that it warrants a penalty by declaring you have no interest In the pot (in turn).

I think it's simply because it's giving an advantage to whoever happens to be in position in the pot. Simple as that. There's no reason to fold rather than check.

if I'm last to act on the river and it's checked to me then how is my folding any different from me checking and instamucking? they are identical yet one would now get me a penalty

Well if you're heads up and do that i'm snap getting the TD over. Multi-way on the river i'm not all that bothered by it. There's no more action. But it's a completely different scenario than you folding last to act on the turn as you've now gifted the player before you last action. That's not fair on the other player(s).

[Boba Fett]

In Cos's example, isnt it a good idea to fold in turn on the turn so that the river is HU between the other 2, increasing their chances of getting stacks in without having to worry about a 3rd player?

To give a similar example, 1 limper(lol) on the bubble of a tourney, sb completes, BB checks.  flop completely misses SB.  If he is unwilling to make any attempt at the pot, isnt he better off folding so the other players can bet more aggressively and maybe bust?

[outragous76]

cos' example is perfect - if he has the nut low here why cant he fold  the turn

like when its checks to showdown and he is forced to reveal his hand as he was called OTF

he has no desire to show 23o as a 3 bet pre/ c bet hand so he folded?

daft to penailse this

[doubleup]

cos' example is perfect - if he has the nut low here why cant he fold  the turn

like when its checks to showdown and he is forced to reveal his hand as he was called OTF

he has no desire to show 23o as a 3 bet pre/ c bet hand so he folded?

daft to penailse this

He is giving an advantage to the middle player that wouldn't have existed otherwise. He has effectively mucked out of turn on the river.

[outragous76]

cos' example is perfect - if he has the nut low here why cant he fold  the turn

like when its checks to showdown and he is forced to reveal his hand as he was called OTF

he has no desire to show 23o as a 3 bet pre/ c bet hand so he folded?

daft to penailse this

He is giving an advantage to the middle player that wouldn't have existed otherwise. He has effectively mucked out of turn on the river.

 but it his his right to do so, in order that he doesnt show his hand, just like he can muck on the river rather than check