Boring rule thread

[Longines]

Thanks, never played or seen a live 6max so assumed online had it right 

[Cf]

So they're basically saying you can no longer request to see a hand at showdown unless collusion is suspected.

And am I right in thinking rule 14 allows pots to be won with no cards shown? Eg, Player A bluffs the river. Player B calls. Player A mucks. Player B mucks and gets pot.

If out of order yes,

and yes to your last question.

Can you clarify by what you mean out of order?

Eg, A shows top pair, B mucks, C shows 2 pair. A/C both want to see B's hand. Previously this is allowed, though discouraged. The new rule seems to prohibit this.

Couple of other interesting ones, especially:

42: Accepted Action
 Poker is a game of alert, continuous observation. It is the caller’s responsibility to determine
 the correct amount of an opponent’s bet before calling, regardless of what is stated by the
 dealer or players. If a caller requests a count but receives incorrect information from the
 dealer or players, then places that amount in the pot, the caller is assumed to accept the full
 correct action & is subject to the correct wager or all-in amount. Rule 1 may apply in certain
 situations at tournament director’s discretion.

Which is the first major contradiction I have found between TDA/RRs. Though the TDA rule does say they may apply rule 1 which to me is implying this rule is perhaps a bit too black and white.

And the part about having a dealer kill your hand. They've removed the part about having your cards protected.

[dik9]

Eg, A shows top pair, B mucks, C shows 2 pair. A/C both want to see B's hand. Previously this is allowed, though discouraged. The new rule seems to prohibit this.

What rule prohibits this? Anyone can fold on the river after everyone has acted.

Couple of other interesting ones, especially:

42: Accepted Action
 Poker is a game of alert, continuous observation. It is the caller’s responsibility to determine
 the correct amount of an opponent’s bet before calling, regardless of what is stated by the
 dealer or players. If a caller requests a count but receives incorrect information from the
 dealer or players, then places that amount in the pot, the caller is assumed to accept the full
 correct action & is subject to the correct wager or all-in amount. Rule 1 may apply in certain
 situations at tournament director’s discretion.

Basically if there is a wrong count by the dealer or player if a player says all-in, you are held to the actual all-in wager not the stated wager.

And the part about having a dealer kill your hand. They've removed the part about having your cards protected.

49: Accidentally Killed / Fouled Hands
Players must protect their own hands at all times. If a dealer kills a hand by mistake, or a
hand is fouled, the player will have no redress and is not entitled to a refund of bets. If the
player initiated a bet or raise and hasn’t been called, the uncalled bet or raise will be
returned to the player.

[dik9]

Can you clarify by what you mean out of order?

Correct order of showdown

[dik9]

47 is my fave lol beware Mr Bradshaw lol

[Cf]

I'm on about requesting to see a hand eligible for showdown. In my example B's hand was eligible for showdown. He just chooses not to show it as A has already shown better.

Previously anyone dealt into the hand could request to see this hand.

The new rule states that this can only be done with TDs permission if there is a suspicion of collusion.

[bobAlike]

One thing I learnt from playing on Saturday was never muck your hand if you don't need too. I was first to act on the river when in a 5 way pot. I mucked my Q3c on a AKXXX board, everyone else checked it down. my Q high would have been good

Moral of the story, whats the point in mucking when you still can potentially win the hand.

[dik9]

I'm on about requesting to see a hand eligible for showdown. In my example B's hand was eligible for showdown. He just chooses not to show it as A has already shown better. B can muck

Previously anyone dealt into the hand could request to see this hand. Not in any of the TDA rules, maybe in RR

The new rule states that this can only be done with TDs permission if there is a suspicion of collusion. correct

[Cf]

I also wish the showdown bit had something about having to show both cards. Under the new rules Player A can now just show 1 card, have everyone else muck and win.

Where this gets annoying is we have multiple people and they take turns showing one card each, then take turns showing their second card and taking all fucking day about it. Arrrrgghhhhhhhh.

They should add:

Rule 13.5

If you show 1 card at showdown you MUST show your other card otherwise the hand will be dead

That'll teach em.

[Cf]

Previously anyone dealt into the hand could request to see this hand. Not in any of the TDA rules, maybe in RR

Ah fair enough. TDA is designed to be put on top of house rules isn't it? So presumably you'd previously just go with whatever you had underneath. I think most venues would give the player the right to see if they asked.

FWIW I like the new TDA rule and have always thought that's how it should be implemented

[dik9]

I also wish the showdown bit had something about having to show both cards. Under the new rules Player A can now just show 1 card, have everyone else muck and win.

Where this gets annoying is we have multiple people and they take turns showing one card each, then take turns showing their second card and taking all fucking day about it. Arrrrgghhhhhhhh.

They should add:

Rule 13.5

If you show 1 card at showdown you MUST show your other card otherwise the hand will be dead

That'll teach em.

If a player shows one card or verbally declares a hand, I will insist that complete hand be shown if it causes another to muck, even if they are the last player standing.

House rules are designed to work around the basics of TDA rules.

[doubleup]

42: Accepted Action
 Poker is a game of alert, continuous observation. It is the caller’s responsibility to determine
 the correct amount of an opponent’s bet before calling, regardless of what is stated by the
 dealer or players. If a caller requests a count but receives incorrect information from the
 dealer or players, then places that amount in the pot, the caller is assumed to accept the full
 correct action & is subject to the correct wager or all-in amount. Rule 1 may apply in certain
 situations at tournament director’s discretion.

Basically if there is a wrong count by the dealer or player if a player says all-in, you are held to the actual all-in wager not the stated wager.

Bad rule - so emphatic then the"oh maybe not" reference to TDs discretion  - there should be reference to the size of the error i.e. someone says they have 10th of the chips they actually have.  Do TDs want to have countdowns of every player before every action?

[Cf]

I really don't like that rule 42.

A player at the opposite end of the table bets without saying anything. Now, If I happen to throw in what I think is the right amount but happen to be way off then this is clearly my fault. But if I ask the dealer to count it then I think I should be offered some protection by this. I have gone out of my way to obtain the information I need. How else am I going to get the right amount? Stand up, walk to the other side of the table and physically count it myself?

It's clearly something that needs the TDs discretion. But this rule goes too far in making it the player's fault imo.

[dik9]

42: Accepted Action
 Poker is a game of alert, continuous observation. It is the caller’s responsibility to determine
 the correct amount of an opponent’s bet before calling, regardless of what is stated by the
 dealer or players. If a caller requests a count but receives incorrect information from the
 dealer or players, then places that amount in the pot, the caller is assumed to accept the full
 correct action & is subject to the correct wager or all-in amount. Rule 1 may apply in certain
 situations at tournament director’s discretion.

Basically if there is a wrong count by the dealer or player if a player says all-in, you are held to the actual all-in wager not the stated wager.

Bad rule - so emphatic then the"oh maybe not" reference to TDs discretion  - there should be reference to the size of the error i.e. someone says they have 10th of the chips they actually have.  Do TDs want to have countdowns of every player before every action?

Dont blame me lol

With reference to Rule 1 in this instance, if it is clear a player going all in has a dirty stack hidden at the back that the dealer missed and all-in player did not correct or even see, all of a sudden after a call the all-in player goes hang on there are 2 25k chips in that stack, that will be the TD's call, hence rule 1 leaves the TD to use his/her discretion. Dont actually like this rule btw.