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Author Topic: JJ tough UTG spot  (Read 4376 times)
smashedagain
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 08:51:11 PM »

threads like this go on far too long imo. download pokerstove, use a calculator and jobs done.
Now Dave if I down load pokerstove and use my calculator to learn what you think is the correct play in every situation, should I then be able to out play you because I know exactly what you think you should be doing so I act accordingly.

I really hope this is a joke Jason. Because this guy moves all in pre flop, it becomes a mathematical decision. Using your theory you should be able to do loads of stove and equity studies and beat Galfond hu at $1k/$2k PLO. But you can't, because that's not how poker works.

Get a job.
lol. yes might have to go on the bins. was in a bit of a rush and my statement had nothing to do with the hand but saw dave advocate stove and a calculator and wondered if you could beat someone who plays perfect mathematical poker.
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 11:38:11 AM »

threads like this go on far too long imo. download pokerstove, use a calculator and jobs done.
Now Dave if I down load pokerstove and use my calculator to learn what you think is the correct play in every situation, should I then be able to out play you because I know exactly what you think you should be doing so I act accordingly.

I really hope this is a joke Jason. Because this guy moves all in pre flop, it becomes a mathematical decision. Using your theory you should be able to do loads of stove and equity studies and beat Galfond hu at $1k/$2k PLO. But you can't, because that's not how poker works.

Get a job.
lol. yes might have to go on the bins. was in a bit of a rush and my statement had nothing to do with the hand but saw dave advocate stove and a calculator and wondered if you could beat someone who plays perfect mathematical poker.

if we play 500big blind deep nl holdem then you could easily out funk my mathematical approach - you always seem to think my approach to the game is to sit there ignoring everything that happens and just reaching my decisions based on a calculation or two because I always advocate solving hands mathematically on here, but these are usually in threads when we're facing 15big blind shoves

however if we're playing 11big blind holdem and I make perfect shoves/perfect calls and perfect folds then you cannot beat me unless you are doing the same even if you know exactly what i'm doing its completely optimal poker as in it is in-exploitable i.e no-one is able to exploit the way i'm playing
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 12:33:33 PM »

i know you play better poker than just doing a quick calculation and concluding that this is what i should do.

i just dont understand how you can say that you are in exploitable when if we also understand what you are about and we also know what you think are the perfect shoves calls  folds then how can we not exploit this as we know what you know. one of the first things i learnt is to study your opponent and his actions, establish what he wants you to do ie call or fold and do the opposite. i need to come round your flat one night while jamie is at yoga and chat to you in private to save myself looking any more stupid on here. Wink
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 01:05:02 PM »

obviously if you know exactly what ranges I am calling/shoving/folding to 11 big blind shoves you could then adjust slightly and prolly take a slight edge.

but the point is if for whatever reason im calling/shoving/folding perfectly vs your range then you can't exploit me + ofc in adjusting you might start making bad folds/shove or calls and therefore start making mistakes urself

its just a part of the game where zen like reading ability all the live guys have are redundant vs someone playing well and it becomes all about the maths - this obviously isnt true about all spots, but very true about this one. folding JJ is a mistake, calling with it isnt and it is literally that simple
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smashedagain
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 01:46:36 PM »

obviously if you know exactly what ranges I am calling/shoving/folding to 11 big blind shoves you could then adjust slightly and prolly take a slight edge.

but the point is if for whatever reason im calling/shoving/folding perfectly vs your range then you can't exploit me + ofc in adjusting you might start making bad folds/shove or calls and therefore start making mistakes urself

its just a part of the game where zen like reading ability all the live guys have are redundant vs someone playing well and it becomes all about the maths - this obviously isnt true about all spots, but very true about this one. folding JJ is a mistake, calling with it isnt and it is literally that simple
totally accept that JJ is not a fold here but i was not really talking about the hand.

you will find that most of the zen like reading from live players comes after the cards are revealed and dumb ass goes "yeah thats what i thought you had". daniel negreanu has the ability and the only person i have seen personally do it with a massive degree of success is mike ellis.

i could name you players that play live and are mega consistant cashing/finaling for fun and would not even have heard of pokerstove.

are there online  guys that have made the transistion to live who totally understand the maths and also are mega consistent (jason mercier springs to mind)

meet chris bjorin

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=24

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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 02:19:19 PM »

I'm not sure why you feel the need to reduce every thread to a "Old live guys vs Young online guys" Jason, but here we are again. If the success of the young (previously online based) British community hasn't shown you anything then you just need to open your eyes. But that's not the point of this thread.

The point is that we have a wired pair of Jack and should make the call 100% of the time. He has by far enough hands that we beat in his range to give us really good equity in the hand. But you probably don't "buy into" theories like equity or ranges or even that there are any jacks in the deck in the first place. Blockers? What's a blocker?
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2011, 02:26:11 PM »

Also, why do you seem to think that the maths based online players who are killing live tournaments can't "zen like" hand read either? Jake Cody, James Keys, Matt Perrins etc. are all sick live hand readers. I honestly think you're just insanely stubborn in this subject. Not sure why you would want to take anything away from any of the young guys by mocking the maths side of their game considering they are all nice to you and all British. Get your patriotism on yo.
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2011, 02:40:49 PM »

i could name you players that play live and are mega consistant cashing/finaling for fun and would not even have heard of pokerstove.

are there online  guys that have made the transistion to live who totally understand the maths and also are mega consistent (jason mercier springs to mind)

meet chris bjorin

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=24

Jason - what is it you actually mean by this lol I can;t figure it out

it seems like the point you are trying to make is

because guys that have a ton of consistent live results don't use pokerstove which is JUST a piece of software lets not forget, that you don't necessarily need it to be a winning player?

I agree you could be a winning player and not know anything about equities.

A good example I think though - me and george have had a chat about some hands before and whereas I don't think george spends any time at home running equities on PPT lol - but the way he broke the hands down in his head showed pretty clear understanding of the principle and that he considers these things in his decision making.

I imagine he would have been near the top of your list of examples against the "theory"
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smashedagain
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2011, 04:05:10 PM »

i could name you players that play live and are mega consistant cashing/finaling for fun and would not even have heard of pokerstove.

are there online  guys that have made the transistion to live who totally understand the maths and also are mega consistent (jason mercier springs to mind)

meet chris bjorin

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=24

Jason - what is it you actually mean by this lol I can;t figure it out

it seems like the point you are trying to make is

because guys that have a ton of consistent live results don't use pokerstove which is JUST a piece of software lets not forget, that you don't necessarily need it to be a winning player?

I agree you could be a winning player and not know anything about equities.

A good example I think though - me and george have had a chat about some hands before and whereas I don't think george spends any time at home running equities on PPT lol - but the way he broke the hands down in his head showed pretty clear understanding of the principle and that he considers these things in his decision making.

I imagine he would have been near the top of your list of examples against the "theory"
guess you mean george dubya. should really face book ya coz am giving to much knowledge (or lack) of away here. wont be for a while tho
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2011, 06:16:44 PM »

Also, why do you seem to think that the maths based online players who are killing live tournaments can't "zen like" hand read either? Jake Cody, James Keys, Matt Perrins etc. are all sick live hand readers. I honestly think you're just insanely stubborn in this subject. Not sure why you would want to take anything away from any of the young guys by mocking the maths side of their game considering they are all nice to you and all British. Get your patriotism on yo.

90% of what Jason says on this forum is BS. The other 10% he saves for Facebook
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2011, 06:24:56 PM »

I am constantly confused as to whether smashedagain is leveling 100% of the time or not.

Sometimes I can see the merits in some of the things he says, but he seems determined to make it a live vs online thing, whilst berating online players. Bit weird.
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smashedagain
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 07:11:14 PM »

I am either trying to learn everything I can and understand or just trying to piss you off. It's defo  one or the other. I am afraid that I have caught the bug that is being sad and arguing on Internet forums.

You had your mental game sorted with help george and having a positive attitude has never been my problem.  It's obv helped as you say the results are coming but I only follow you on here for monte/deepstack or stars blogs and what I read it was same old same old big stack to dust but your are obv a lot happier when that happens nowadays.

This site should be a place of learning not only about poker but life experience too. I like to take the piss as much as the next person but I am also here to broaden my knowledge. I love Toby and Jake more than anyone in poker and would not have named my twins after them. But tbh it was race/toss up with them two or tikay n doyle
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2011, 07:50:45 PM »

am pleased no one responded to that last post. was bathing the kids at the time and did not want it to come over in the wrong way.  kids chucking jugs of water all over is quite stress full. this could easily be a case of trying to teach an old dog new tricks but here are a couple of examples of how my mind works.
1. i could not understand why winning players needed backing.
    this lead to jamie sykes dis owning me on facebook but it was not until dave explained to  me that you could be a winning player on the gukpt but did not have the roll for the ept but this was a way to play for this player.....fucking simple but i could not see it.
2. why someone would want to back a player because if they needed backing they were losers.
    once again lead to a mate telling me he had experienced a massive downswing/varience/table games and as it was a make up deal so effectivly little risk to the backer.
3. why is every ***** in make up and why would a player want to agree to be tied to this.
   .obv now know this is how it works. bink pay off then next comp you are back in again. i was thinking bordy puts me in the EPT london and i bink £1million. give him 50% so he gets £500k. next comp he puts me in a £500 ukipt i bubble say sorry but least you got half a mill last week .he just looks up at me, winks and says fuck you , you now owe me

sorry if my written word sometimes comes across badly but i laugh as much as i can in this life. we are here for a good time not a hard time Wink
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 07:52:11 PM »

and i did start by telling dave its not a level and got nowt to do with this particular hand. i love little dave as he has more patience than most and does not bully me
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 07:55:50 PM »

haha jason. you're odd
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