DTD 300- Tough spot or easiest fold ever

[George2Loose]

It depends. Obv he seems cally more than aggro, how old is he? wots he wearing? wots his banter? as a default i'd probably call (don't hero fold vs fish). Not sure i buy into the concept of fold because there are better spots, dtd 300 isn't the wsop main and is rather turbo-y.

Youngish but nothing to suggest he's decent or 3 betting wide which is why I'm on the Boba/Sykes/LilDave camp even tho I called. I mean he played the hand like a tard and probs got called by the only worse hand he was ever going to get called by. His bomb on the turn was probably cos there's two hearts on board

[Nit Tendencies]

Nobody who has said call has told me what hands we expect him to have that give us enough equity to call. Give me a range of hands that are worse than TPTK here that a fish 3bets pre, overbets flop and overbet jams turn with for over 100bbs oop and I will happily concede that I'm wrong.

[redarmi]

I think in a lot of these threads there tend to be disagreements between a lot of decent players that come down to the games that they generally play and villains that they face.  For example in your average EPT that someone like Rupert plays then this may well be a call because the players are good enough to be making plays here but against your average deeptstack player I think that you know this is a fold.  How many random players in this event 3bet pre and then c-bet this flop and shove the turn without AK/AA/KK?  I would suggest it isn't very many and you know exactly where you are against that range.

[AlexMartin]

Nobody who has said call has told me what hands we expect him to have that give us enough equity to call. Give me a range of hands that are worse than TPTK here that a fish 3bets pre, overbets flop and overbet jams turn with for over 100bbs oop and I will happily concede that I'm wrong.

ok, we know the guy is bad given his prior hands. If we make the extrapolation that he will make further mistakes then this call turns trivial given the structure, stack sizes, combinatronics (im def includin some spazzy QQ/ random bluff here on occasion) and his ability to make mistakes. sure the guy turns up with AA some decent % of the time, definitely not enough of the time to make up for the spews, splits and bluffs though.

[MANTIS01]

Villain just got all his chips in oop with A-10 right? We know he gets them all-in with less than premium and overvalues his holdings. You are an aggro player and it's his blind which many live players get stubborn about. His own poker strat is to raise TP when he hits and with you just calling the flop he can easily figure you don't have the king. So we're saying this guy came to play poker one day but never defends his blind against an aggro bully and never tries to move the bully off a hand he thinks isn't a king, never bluffs and never semi-bluffs and never over values a hand. People who are saying trivial fold know you have a king but villain doesn't know that. Villain can think you have a fd. His range includes many hands you beat so I don't see the trivial fold myself.

[redarmi]

Bad players have totally different ranges when becoming hyper aggressive like he has in this hand against hands where they call it off like he did in the previous hand with AT.  It is a mistake to assume because he is bad he will be spewy when he is being aggressive.   The fact he calls it off with AT doesn't mean he will 3bet pre light if anything it suggests the opposite.

[MANTIS01]

Bad players have totally different ranges when becoming hyper aggressive like he has in this hand against hands where they call it off like he did in the previous hand with AT.  It is a mistake to assume because he is bad he will be spewy when he is being aggressive.   The fact he calls it off with AT doesn't mean he will 3bet pre light if anything it suggests the opposite.

The guy check raised with A-10 on the flop so he was spewy when he was being aggro.

[smashedagain]

as leefish is still in the tourney and is your traveling partner/friend i think you should maybe ask him. as it stands if he takes it down today he is gonna tell you how bad you are then punch your face in at the celebration party anyway. please be ready

[SuuPRlim]

haha

[George2Loose]

as leefish is still in the tourney and is your traveling partner/friend i think you should maybe ask him. as it stands if he takes it down today he is gonna tell you how bad you are then punch your face in at the celebration party anyway. please be ready

Lee's a bigger nit then you so would have folded pre

[smashedagain]

as leefish is still in the tourney and is your traveling partner/friend i think you should maybe ask him. as it stands if he takes it down today he is gonna tell you how bad you are then punch your face in at the celebration party anyway. please be ready

Lee's a bigger nit then you so would have folded pre

and still in

[Nit Tendencies]

I'm not entirely sure how you can use the AT hand as evidence to justify a call down in a completely different spot.

In the first he's cold called a 3bet instead of 4-betting which imho shows that he's more stationy than spewy aggro. His post flop play in that hand just shows that he has no idea about relative hand strength and only thinks about whether he has the best hand and protecting it. If anything I agree with the previous post that states that this hand is evidence for a fold not a call.

In the AK hand he's 3bet out of the big blind and overbet the flop, then overbet jammed the turn. It doesn't matter whether this is an EPT or a £10 cubed at ALEA, fish who have been shown to have cally tendancies and who don't understand relative hand values are not going to just lose their brain here with QQ/JJ. If he had those kind of hands he would definitely be terrified of the overcard, and slow down on the turn (and probably not overbet the flop).

I'm aware that both sides of the arguments are making assumptions, but when we're calling 23k into 9k or whatever it was, I think assuming a fish has probably got it is much better than just hoping he's sometimes got bluffs.

[SuuPRlim]

His post flop play in that hand just shows that he has no idea about relative hand strength and only thinks about whether he has the best hand and protecting it. If anything I agree with the previous post that states that this hand is evidence for a fold not a call.

I agree with this, but then a lot of clever people have suggested otherwise, so maybe. IDK

it's an interesting spot for sure George, and one that can only occur in a live tournament haha

[cambridgealex]

I think thread concludes it's certainly a tough spot and no it's not the easiest fold ever. Close either way.

Two kings left in if he does have dem aces anyway. Ppl seem to have forgotten this. Ul not to get there IMO. 2left in and you only had to hit one. 50/50 init.

[George2Loose]

I think thread concludes it's certainly a tough spot and no it's not the easiest fold ever. Close either way.

Two kings left in if he does have dem aces anyway. Ppl seem to have forgotten this. Ul not to get there IMO. 2left in and you only had to hit one. 50/50 init.

I was convinced I was the biggest donko ever for calling there and players like the Monte Carlo Champion would make an easy fold. I feel a lot better now