Tottenham riots

[Acidmouse]

Those robbing scum didn't get a beating they deserved they got a slap, kick and a tikkle. I wouldn't class that as brutality at all.

[thetank]

If somebody says that we have, as a society, somehow failed these riotous youths.
If somebody says that we urgently need to address the underlying socio-political factors which caused them to riot.
If they talk about a lack of social mobility or inequality.

Then you should enthusiastically agree.

Then conclude that we need to cut benefits.

The biggest barrier to social mobility is not a lack of oppurtunity, but a lack of incentive for young people to take these oppurtunities.

When offered the choice of a shitty job or no job, people need to be encouraged to take the shitty job. The way to incentivise this is to give them less shit for free when they have no job. Cut benefits. It's not about forcing people into poverty, it's about forcing people to get a job if they want a £300 Blackberry.

The people who earn the largest incomes and the people who earn the lowest incomes are very often the same people, just at different points in their lives. Most people earning six figures now are middle aged or near retirement. They didn't earn six figures when they were in their twenties. They start low and they work hard. They start their own buisnesses or get promoted. They take their experience and references and get better jobs and repeat the process. Give these poor rioters a hand by incentivising the beginning of this process.

[thetank]

Tariq Jahan. Incredible speech. Massive respect for that man.

[Alverton]

Tariq Jahan. Incredible speech. Massive respect for that man.

+1 Incredible.

[MPOWER]

Tariq Jahan. Incredible speech. Massive respect for that man.

+1 Incredible.

This man does deserve some Government recognition.

To speak like this while suffering his loss is amazing.

Regards

M


 

[roscopiko]

If somebody says that we have, as a society, somehow failed these riotous youths.
If somebody says that we urgently need to address the underlying socio-political factors which caused them to riot.
If they talk about a lack of social mobility or inequality.

Then you should enthusiastically agree.

Then conclude that we need to cut benefits.

The biggest barrier to social mobility is not a lack of oppurtunity, but a lack of incentive for young people to take these oppurtunities.

When offered the choice of a shitty job or no job, people need to be encouraged to take the shitty job. The way to incentivise this is to give them less shit for free when they have no job. Cut benefits. It's not about forcing people into poverty, it's about forcing people to get a job if they want a £300 Blackberry.

The people who earn the largest incomes and the people who earn the lowest incomes are very often the same people, just at different points in their lives. Most people earning six figures now are middle aged or near retirement. They didn't earn six figures when they were in their twenties. They start low and they work hard. They start their own buisnesses or get promoted. They take their experience and references and get better jobs and repeat the process. Give these poor rioters a hand by incentivising the beginning of this process.

spot on

[byronkincaid]

It's not about forcing people into poverty, it's about forcing people to get a job

or into crime of course. prisons are pretty much full up aren't they? even if they are not, guessing it costs more to keep someone in prison than to give them benefits?

[Bongo]

I think the problem is there is little incentive to move off benefits once you're on them - you can get a job and end up a lot worse off. Surely that's not right?

[ManuelsMum]

amazing how people view this so differently.

I saw the kid on the bike today on Sky, and said out loud to myself, "about time too"

The Police have had everything thrown at them for 3-4 days, and have no "real" power to stop anything, so the rioters carry on with no regard for property, human life or anything.  Other louts from other areas saw this and were encouraged, think no doubt if they can we can.  so it spreads...

It has been made very clear, get off the streets and stop watching these criminals.  Why on earth would you be out on the street with this going on, unless you were intent on doing something.

Good on them I say, as 100% that kid ain't on the streets tonight - Job Done!

What if they Police ignored him, as he wasn't "doing anything" and he went around the corner and torched something...the Police would have been lamblasted for not dealing with a "youth on the rioting streets"  We saw in London that standing watching people loot didn't work.. The public were and are screaming out for more action from the Police - about time we saw it.

Human rights is great for the right reasons, not protecting muppets like this.  Fk'em, and their hiding behind Lawyers.  go in and go in hard, 100% it would quell it in one night.

You commit a crime, you lose your rights.

Extreme case - bet you don't get much if any shoplifting in places like Saudia arabia - wonder why.  We are imo to soft, and too worried about consequences by  lawyers actions.

If someone commits a crime, that permits the police to act outside the law?

It should permit them to deal with the person(s) how they see fit at the time of the incident.   Common sense approach of course, reasonable force is fine in theses situ's  Why shouldn't they!  This was fine imo, he was dealt with in a way the i reckon 99/9% of the public agreed with.

If some-one was damaging your property, or putting you or your family lifes at risk,  wouldn't that give you the right to act how you see fit at the time.  Wouldn't you want the backing of the public and law makers in dealing with the criminal / thug that was breaking the law in the first place.

Remember this guy?


Copper coming round the corner this time probably didn't even know who the guy was, just a guy on a bike coming from the scene of some trouble.

[thetank]

It's not about forcing people into poverty, it's about forcing people to get a job

or into crime of course. prisons are pretty much full up aren't they? even if they are not, guessing it costs more to keep someone in prison than to give them benefits?

If reducing benefits increases crime will increasing benefits reduce crime?

If benefits were 20% higher than they are now and somebody proposed a 17% reduction, the argument would surely be made that this forces people into crime. Would this be valid?

If we double benefits will that help reduce crime? If so surely not by as much than if we tripled them? Personally I think most crimbos will be crimbos irregardless of how much we give them for doing hee haw

I understand my policy may have downsides. Pretty much everything does, there's rarely any win win, even though that's how we try to sell things. I don't accept that the short term difference in crime rates would be massive though, I mean how much worse can it get? Medium and long term the plan is that it will reduce youth unemployment and in so doing reduce the crime rate.

Of course I'm not sure it'll work. I think it's worth considering though.

[thetank]

Not up for reducing all benefits, just those for young people.

People who've worked away and paid into the system for years before becoming unemployed should get more support.

[doubleup]

It's not about forcing people into poverty, it's about forcing people to get a job

or into crime of course. prisons are pretty much full up aren't they? even if they are not, guessing it costs more to keep someone in prison than to give them benefits?

just build prisons with the money saved from cutting the benefits, force them to work in the prisons like they do in the states.

[redarmi]

Not up for reducing all benefits, just those for young people.

People who've worked away and paid into the system for years before becoming unemployed should get more support.

Whilst I am sympathetic to the logic in your arguments I just don't think that most of these people live in poverty on benefits.  They have been profit motivated criminals over the last couple of days and I am not convinced that isn't what they do all the time.  Whether that is shoplifting, robbery, drug dealing or whatever I don't think reducing their benefits will all of a sudden motivate them into work.  By all accounts there was a big correlation between those that were arrested in connection with Broadwater Farm for example and those arrested for serious criminality in the subsequent years.  We already know that Mark Duggan was a member of the Tottenham Man Dem gang  who are serious serious criminals so chances are that most of those involved Saturday up there were associates.  To be honest I think it is probably too late for all but a handful of these morons to be turned around.  Best place for them is prison and then we can get to work on the next generation.

[Mitch]

Hello Rioters.
Look at your friend, now back to me; now at your friend, now back to me! Sadly, he isn't me; but if he stopped using antisocial behaviour and started using the job centre he could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are we? You're at an interview, with the man your friend could work for! What's in his hand? It's an application form to that job he needs.
Look again.. the form is now money! Anything is possible when you get a job and stop looting. I'm at a desk

 

[Waz1892]

amazing how people view this so differently.

I saw the kid on the bike today on Sky, and said out loud to myself, "about time too"

The Police have had everything thrown at them for 3-4 days, and have no "real" power to stop anything, so the rioters carry on with no regard for property, human life or anything.  Other louts from other areas saw this and were encouraged, think no doubt if they can we can.  so it spreads...

It has been made very clear, get off the streets and stop watching these criminals.  Why on earth would you be out on the street with this going on, unless you were intent on doing something.

Good on them I say, as 100% that kid ain't on the streets tonight - Job Done!

What if they Police ignored him, as he wasn't "doing anything" and he went around the corner and torched something...the Police would have been lamblasted for not dealing with a "youth on the rioting streets"  We saw in London that standing watching people loot didn't work.. The public were and are screaming out for more action from the Police - about time we saw it.

Human rights is great for the right reasons, not protecting muppets like this.  Fk'em, and their hiding behind Lawyers.  go in and go in hard, 100% it would quell it in one night.

You commit a crime, you lose your rights.

Extreme case - bet you don't get much if any shoplifting in places like Saudia arabia - wonder why.  We are imo to soft, and too worried about consequences by  lawyers actions.

If someone commits a crime, that permits the police to act outside the law?

It should permit them to deal with the person(s) how they see fit at the time of the incident.   Common sense approach of course, reasonable force is fine in theses situ's  Why shouldn't they!  This was fine imo, he was dealt with in a way the i reckon 99/9% of the public agreed with.

If some-one was damaging your property, or putting you or your family lifes at risk,  wouldn't that give you the right to act how you see fit at the time.  Wouldn't you want the backing of the public and law makers in dealing with the criminal / thug that was breaking the law in the first place.

Remember this guy?


Copper coming round the corner this time probably didn't even know who the guy was, just a guy on a bike coming from the scene of some trouble.

yes, awful..did he mean to kill him.....or was he moving him on?..nasty incident....but for ever 1 you give me, i'll give you a 1000 that are attacks on the police, who simply do there job.  how many missles, bricks, petrol bombs have th police thrown

I never got whacked by the police during the last 4 days..why...cause i stayed of the streets....not worth getting caught up in it

trust me i have very very much reason to hate the police on 2 occasions...and i do with certain branches.....they do wrong..they fk up and cover up...some are power driven bstads....liars etc

but not 1 one sec do i have any sympthony for any of the protesters wotsoever if they get battered.