Stars 100r Final table..

[Spraggs]

As subject says, Final table of the $100 rebuy on stars from last night.

I was chip leader on the final table bubble, chipping up nicely, and my computer decides to crash and then take 10x longer to reboot 

I come back and the bubble had burst and we were on the final table. i was 2/9 and because i had just rebooted was playing without HEM for the first few hands.

The Villain:

I hadn't played vs Villain up until the final table in this tournament, and had no stats to hand as of HEM not being started up yet.

All i knew was he was from Czech Republic, had chips, and having had the other table up for a few hands seemed to be using his stack a bit, but not super crazy. Had him down as standard Lag euro.

The Hand:

He raised the cutoff, could of course be doing so with a wide range, both stacked well, I flat as i don't want to inflate the pot OOP, or 3bet/fold a value hand. Here is the HH (bit ghey layout coz took from HEM):

***** Hand History for Game 65829095283 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, August 10, 06:03:19 ET 2011
Table 433010503 15 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: Patbrave ( $110,030.00 USD )
Seat 2: marek_heinz ( $307,267.00 USD )
Seat 3: piepert45 ( $46,104.00 USD )
Seat 4: Flush_Entity ( $206,900.00 USD )
Seat 5: Spraggs ( $280,505.00 USD )
Seat 6: joiso ( $245,553.00 USD )
Seat 7: FerriTheNuts ( $91,160.00 USD )
Seat 8: ALVERSNINE ( $34,2481.00 USD )
Patbrave posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
marek_heinz posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
piepert45 posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
Flush_Entity posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
Spraggs posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
joiso posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
FerriTheNuts posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
ALVERSNINE posts ante of [$600.00 USD].
Spraggs posts small blind [$3,000.00 USD].
joiso posts big blind [$6,000.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Spraggs [  ]
FerriTheNuts folds
ALVERSNINE folds
Patbrave folds
marek_heinz raises [$12,225.00 USD]
piepert45 folds
Flush_Entity folds
Spraggs calls [$9,225.00 USD]
joiso calls [$6,225.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , Ah ]
Spraggs checks
joiso checks
marek_heinz bets [$18785.00 USD]
Spraggs calls [$18785.00 USD]
joiso folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
Spraggs checks
marek_heinz bets [$44,875.00 USD]
Spraggs calls [$44,875.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
Spraggs checks
marek_heinz bets [$92,885.00 USD]
Spraggs folds
marek_heinz wins $92,885.00 USD
marek_heinz wins $168,795.00 USD from main pot

Should i be getting away on the turn? Can i play it any different? Anyone disagree with folding river?

be good to hear some other HS/MS MTT players anaylsis..

[pleno1]

Marek Heinz is v.good btw.

[outragous76]

OK Ill go first  - but as usual it will be in my summary style

3 bet pre?  - I dont mind the flat this deep - it sucks balls when he 4 bets, so unless we are prepared to get it in (against a specific villain) - flat is best option

flop - I like the flat, i keeps in his bluffing range in and controls pot size

turn - pretty puke here when he keeps betting- i think all things considered you have to call to pick off all of his 2 barrell bluffs, esp given he can be bluffing due to ICM considerations. We have a thin draw to the nuts, and Im not especially happy about hitting my 2pr here tbh.

This is probably one of the few times in poker where "if we call the turn we have to calll river" doesnt apply.

River - The river obv changes nothing with respect to any potentail AK holding as we were already beat. I obv makes a few 2pr and str8 hands.

I guess the question is does he bet his 2pr hands for value on this board? If not then he is polarised to beating us/bluffing. Obv if we dont think he bets his 2 pr hands it adds weight to his bluffing range, but when all is said and done I think call turn puke fold river isnt too bad here

Really dont mind how you played the hand tbh

edit - just seen how many shorties there are - this is really close to a call - i still think i puke fold. I mean what is he putting you on? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  scrambled brain - im gonna stick with fold

[cambridgealex]

The logic "if we call turn we have to call river" is bs in most cases guy.

[cambridgealex]

Not a hs mtt player at all, but I like the way you played it.

[redarmi]

I think you played it fine.  I am considering folding by the turn but can't imagine I ever would.  You are obviously folding the best hand a bit on the river against a decent player but it has to be the right play.

[outragous76]

Bugger, just realised we don't draw to nuts on turn, don't hate folding turn when barrels, ESP given other stack sizes

[DMorgan]

3bet/5betting pre

As played I call

[outragous76]

3bet/5betting pre

As played I call

icm disaster? pre?

[Spraggs]

3bet/5betting pre

As played I call

Thanks, I put the hand up here to get other opinions, see if there was other ways to play it.

I actually think i played the hand fine, I flatted pre for the reasons i stated in OP, I chk/called flop with the intention of calling 2 barrells, and letting go if he did fire the river (obviously depending slightly what dropped on these streets).

@Outrageous, your analysis is pretty much the same as mine for the hand, just you worded it better than i probably could. The problem with how i played my hand is that it's pretty face up. But i'm still only beating a bluff. And to be fair i may play AQ JT(straight) and even a boat like that if i think he is hanging himself.

@DMorgan I didnt have my HUD working, so I had no info on whether he was agro, so i didn't think getting into a 3/4/5 betting war vs what appeared to me as a random with AJ was best. Plus If i 3bet and he just flats its a spot i don't like OOP, so easy to whiff and get outplayed. I didn't think much to calling the river bet, if he was bluffing why wouldn't he just shove? Any reasons behind why you'd call river? and even to why you think 3/5betting pre is what you'd do

[Nit Tendencies]

I'm out atm playing cash with Mitch and the little one, so I'll post a full response later but for now here's a quick response.

1. I like the peel pre with 9 left, I think you get into some tricky ICM spots 3betting oop vs a competent player on a full final and we have a hand that does pretty well against his opening range, so a peel is mandatory imho.

2. I think that I check fold the turn here. I think he's going I pot control worse aces and you've got a tight perceived range calling pre from the sb and then calling this flop so i don't think he expects you to fold any of your flop calling range on the turn. That being said, he could be betting the turn with the slightly weaker parts of his value range intending to check the river, so maybe calling the turn and folding the river isn't so bad, but I definitely don't call the river.

[action man]

i actually don't like the flat pre, i mean, he knows your 3betting the top of your range. So your hand strength is pretty much face up. I also dont like 3betting to 5bet this deep with the dynamic. Icm implications will come in to play quite a bit post as they will pre where he can barrell certain flops knowing that you cant ever have AA AK KK QQ JJ TT and AQ and your range is hugley weighted towards AT-AJ QK and 66-99. Im an old fool and turning nitty with every swinging tune i whistle along too and therefore just fold and carry on singing along with dean martin and ludder a bit and wait for a better hand to 3bet oop vs the CL

NITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[DMorgan]

@DMorgan I didnt have my HUD working, so I had no info on whether he was agro, so i didn't think getting into a 3/4/5 betting war vs what appeared to me as a random with AJ was best. Plus If i 3bet and he just flats its a spot i don't like OOP, so easy to whiff and get outplayed. I didn't think much to calling the river bet, if he was bluffing why wouldn't he just shove? Any reasons behind why you'd call river? and even to why you think 3/5betting pre is what you'd do

Made a few assumptions, first that you knew who he was and secondly that he perceives you as a random. He's very good, aggro so he's gunna 4ball a random all day long here with the chiplead and a couple of shortstacks around. If he flats in this spot I'd imagine its only really to trap wiith KK/AA as he can expect a 4bet to be hugely profitable vs most randoms that are 3betting AJ and way worse.

My reasoning for calling is pretty much what trigg said. Your range here looks pretty weak. You're wanting to fold a hand that is close to the top of your range that peels pre and c/c c/c checks river so its obv a great spot for him to barrel and I think he's good enough to recognise that.

[George2Loose]

i actually don't like the flat pre, i mean, he knows your 3betting the top of your range. So your hand strength is pretty much face up. I also dont like 3betting to 5bet this deep with the dynamic. Icm implications will come in to play quite a bit post as they will pre where he can barrell certain flops knowing that you cant ever have AA AK KK QQ JJ TT and AQ and your range is hugley weighted towards AT-AJ QK and 66-99. Im an old fool and turning nitty with every swinging tune i whistle along too and therefore just fold and carry on singing along with dean martin and ludder a bit and wait for a better hand to 3bet oop vs the CL

NITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Nit brigade here. Optimal line

[pleno1]

i fold.

anybody 3b/folding?