Blowing your bankroll

[Trivial]

I'm not, in general, one to make my feelings public ; but having been a fascinated follower of these boards and their merry band of contributors over the months, feel compared to share with you this slightly woeful tale . While it may well be tedious for most, perhaps others can relate, and comment as to how they overcame a similar predicament. Either way, thanks in advance for taking the time to read the topic.

First, a slight bit of background. I began playing poker online in August of 2005, having enjoyed my summer break from University without employment and finding myself deep into my overdraft with only £50 of a possible £1250 remaining. I am a naturally lazy soul, but clearly, a job would be essential if I failed to acquire some dough. So with a "no win" scenario in mind (i.e. a job needed either way), I plunged my last few quid into an online account on VC (after they sponsored a large poker supplement in the Daily Telegraph!) and proceeded to lose the lot in one night playing ring games without a clue. Anyway, I lost £127 in total over three days, having appealed to my credit card for funds. The poker bug had bitten me but the financial tolls were impossible.

Fast forward a few days and I discovered STTs. $5, $3 entries, and I was enjoying success, at last. The tournament style suited my play, and the chips helped alleviate the financial concerns. Then I was able to cash in a £2 MTT having expanded operations onto William Hills... and I was spending practically all my time devouring online posting after online posting on poker strategy (I have yet, however, to read a book).

Anyway, September arrives and I'm back to University. I begin applying my knowledge in larger MTTs, and to my delight bring home the WH $3k ($840), a Tribeca $5 ($320) and then... a £1600 second place in the WH £10k within a seven day period.

This marked the first time that my bank account could be described as black in perhaps three years. And I was earning merrily from a game that I loved.

From there I was able to steadily build up to approximately £2k (this is relative to the large -£1k overdraft which I cleared), and indeed, was being extremely conservative with my bankroll, before the disgusting and vile emporium which is PartyPoker introduced its blackjack sidegame. Despite its obvious -EV, I was hooked, and high rollin' it drunk over a 72 hour period managed to blow £1500 on this ludicrous gamble. All my cards were maxed at this point and having sobered up I went to stay with my girlfriend for several days in an attempt to get over this addiction.

Up until this point Holdem had been my only online game. But entranced by the money flying on the blackjack tables, I moved into 7 Card Stud and PL Omaha, in the hope of higher returns, ever faster. Despite my extreme lack of knowledge in strategy for these games, the players seemed poor, and I was recovering my losses at an excellent rate. Then came a magnificent drunk Omaha session at $5/$10 where I turned $250 into $3.2k.

This was in early December and with £3500 now in the bank (Blackjack losses recovered) I figured the year ahead would be sweet indeed. Christ, I had been eating fine restaurant food and drinking the best ales every day of the week, and I was still way up. AND I'd got over blackjack in the interim.

Then came the dreaded variance. First dropping a grand at $20/$40 stud in 45 minutes before winning it back in three days. Then sitting with a $3k stack playing $5/$10 Omaha PL and losing it in a three-way all-in. Tilt and chasing followed (several rebuys), before I forced myself offline to assess the damage. I couldn't believe retrospectively that I had set my entire bankroll on the line in one game.

End result, its January 04th and I have roughly £100 left. £3k down from one week prior. I can no longer afford to play for even medium stakes. $0.50/$1 NL would cripple me with one poor session. I have dropped down to playing $5-$15 STTs and low buy-in MTTs, hoping to build enough again to set me back on track. The satisfaction is negligible though, and I have to wonder just how much the urge to gamble with large sums (relative to my bankroll) has ruined my ability.

On the other hand, I feel that I have the drive to come as close as humanely possible to Roy West's desirable manifesto of "taking the gamble out of one's game" . I have spent 24 hours on the trot at times reading online material on poker and its derivatives. With practically no money left though, and a lingering desire to play for more "interesting" stakes than I can currently afford, I really don't know how to proceed at this point in time.

If any of you fine people have similar tales, brutal criticisms, or even advice to offer... I will be truly glad to read what you have to say.

Regards,

trivial

[Royal Flush]

What a FANTASTIC post!! Truely.

That is probably the best post i have read on here. A candidate for the best of blonde.

Sadly i can offer little advice than to take a week or 2 or a month away from the game. Right now nothing you do will feel good, you need to go away in order to rediscover your love of the game.

Whatever you do, please keep us updated!

[Longy]

Ok i did think not replying to this as i fortunately have never suffered the variance you have or done my bankroll and did not want to appear condesending. Firstly can i say i geniunley did not enjoy reading your story as it is not a pleasent one but i applaud your honest which is the first step.

The advice i would give is to step away from the game and take a break. At least a week probably more. By the sounds of things this is money you can't afford to lose so please put yourself first. Secondly you seem to be playing poker for the thrill of the big win and not to make a steady profit, this is a boom or bust strategy and 99% of the time its bust. I really do feel you have a problem and you need to be honest with yourself before the problem affects your whole life.

I admit i don't know you but i felt i had to be honest with you. Also bear in mind poker is a game to be enjoyed and that enjoyment can be taken without blowing 1000's of pounds.

Good luck Mark

[Scottish Dave]

Ok i did think not replying to this as i fortunately have never suffered the variance you have or done my bankroll and did not want to appear condesending. Firstly can i say i geniunley did not enjoy reading your story as it is not a pleasent one but i applaud your honest which is the first step.

The advice i would give is to step away from the game and take a break. At least a week probably more. By the sounds of things this is money you can't afford to lose so please put yourself first. Secondly you seem to be playing poker for the thrill of the big win and not to make a steady profit, this is a boom or bust strategy and 99% of the time its bust. I really do feel you have a problem and you need to be honest with yourself before the problem affects your whole life.

I admit i don't know you but i felt i had to be honest with you. Also bear in mind poker is a game to be enjoyed and that enjoyment can be taken without blowing 1000's of pounds.

Good luck Mark

i was actually just about to post the same thing here, unfortunatley i have a very close friend that has the same 'gambling bug' he tried poker for a while but quit as it didnt give him the 'big win fix' that Trivial is also looking for.

Ive tried to speak to him about this but he wont listen.

I would defo give the poker a break, and step back and ask your self why you are playing the game?

to win big fast or/ cos of the love of out witting your opponent even if i only win £2 playing $0.05 / $0.10 stakes

yours in total honestly mate

Dave

[bundle]

Great post,
For someone to have done as well as you have, it shows you have some game, unfortunately your problem looks like you are a gambler, I think you might benefit from finding posts about bankroll management and about jumping up levels to fast, you didn’t jump you were flying.

Hold em  Omaha  blackjack. 

I agree with the guys here, take some time off and when you do come back, Pick a game. choose a level you can afford to play at and stay there until you have at least 8x your initial bankroll
This is not a get rich quick scheme, it is hours of learning, patience, and having fun.

I feel for ya, I done my bankroll 4-5 times in 05, and every time it was because I was moving levels to fast   

[thetank]

2009 EdIt - Don't do this... lol

Try pyramiding your bankroll up to interesting levels again playing STT.

Say you've a roll of $300 play $10 STTs.

Level 1 -$10 STT
1st place-play a $20 STT (Level 2)
Anything else - Try again Level 1

Level 2 - $20 STT
1st place - Move to Level 3
2nd,3rd place - Try again at Level 2
no cash - move back to level 1

Level 3 - $30/$40 STT
1st place - Move to Level 4 ($50-$100 buy in)
2nd,3rd place - Try again at Level 3
no cash - move back to level 2

etc

Once your roll is at $600 do the same but not going lower than Level 2. Once your rolls over $1k again start at Level 3 and don't go lower etc.

This way you get to play bigger stakes, but you're winning. A bad streak will not lose you as much as a good streak will gain you. I found myself short rolled early last year and built it back up sooner than I thought possible by using this method.

IMHO STT are the only option when short rolled if you're serious about building it back up. Cash games and MTT require too large a roll to make the same money. A good MTT result could get you back on track, but then again there's a greater % chance of ruin again playing them on a short roll.

[Poppet7]

I might try that see if I can start building some money back up, ta tank xx

[riverdave]

Well Trivial this is something i can relate to many times over i can't preach to you about bankroll management skills because whilst i am well aware of them i don't put them into practice often enough. All i will say is that i've been down the gambling with your bankroll road too many times and whilst it has seen some magnificent highs such as $300 turned into $100k in just 4 days of cash games at one site. It has also seen some fantastic lows, losing 90k in 2 days and a 70k pot in the middle of that stick in the memory.
Now getting out of a mess from very little money is one of my specialities. My advice is to find a game and a stake that you are comfortable playing at and stick to it whatever it may be and don't think about moving up until you have recovered sufficient. I know just how much pain is involved in stepping down the levels but you have no choice if you want to get back in the game. It's not much fun to go from playing $5k heads up matches back to the $50 ones or $50/$100 NL back to $1/$2NL but due to similar traits to the ones you've shown i've had to do this. It is difficult when you know you are good enough to beat much bigger games to stick at the smaller level but its the only way to recover. I've moved back up gradually and it's worth the graft at the lower levels in the long run.
I hope you learn from this the first time round like i failed to because it will save you from a world of pain.

[Royal Flush]

Well Trivial this is something i can relate to many times over i can't preach to you about bankroll management skills because whilst i am well aware of them i don't put them into practice often enough. All i will say is that i've been down the gambling with your bankroll road too many times and whilst it has seen some magnificent highs such as $300 turned into $100k in just 4 days of cash games at one site. It has also seen some fantastic lows, losing 90k in 2 days and a 70k pot in the middle of that stick in the memory.
Now getting out of a mess from very little money is one of my specialities. My advice is to find a game and a stake that you are comfortable playing at and stick to it whatever it may be and don't think about moving up until you have recovered sufficient. I know just how much pain is involved in stepping down the levels but you have no choice if you want to get back in the game. It's not much fun to go from playing $5k heads up matches back to the $50 ones or $50/$100 NL back to $1/$2NL but due to similar traits to the ones you've shown i've had to do this. It is difficult when you know you are good enough to beat much bigger games to stick at the smaller level but its the only way to recover. I've moved back up gradually and it's worth the graft at the lower levels in the long run.
I hope you learn from this the first time round like i failed to because it will save you from a world of pain.

 

[bundle]

Well Trivial this is something i can relate to many times over i can't preach to you about bankroll management skills because whilst i am well aware of them i don't put them into practice often enough. All i will say is that i've been down the gambling with your bankroll road too many times and whilst it has seen some magnificent highs such as $300 turned into $100k in just 4 days of cash games at one site. It has also seen some fantastic lows, losing 90k in 2 days and a 70k pot in the middle of that stick in the memory.
Now getting out of a mess from very little money is one of my specialities. My advice is to find a game and a stake that you are comfortable playing at and stick to it whatever it may be and don't think about moving up until you have recovered sufficient. I know just how much pain is involved in stepping down the levels but you have no choice if you want to get back in the game. It's not much fun to go from playing $5k heads up matches back to the $50 ones or $50/$100 NL back to $1/$2NL but due to similar traits to the ones you've shown i've had to do this. It is difficult when you know you are good enough to beat much bigger games to stick at the smaller level but its the only way to recover. I've moved back up gradually and it's worth the graft at the lower levels in the long run.
I hope you learn from this the first time round like i failed to because it will save you from a world of pain.

 

[SuffolkPunch]

Great post and some excellent replies. Hope you can build up again - and keep it!

[MrMoves]

Very good post.  Seems a case of poor bank roll management.  Something everybody goes through I reckon.

[Highstack]

Don't panic about losing your bankroll. Just start again and build a new one. I have lost mine many times and expect to do so again. I put it down as an occupational hazzard (although fortunately I am employed and don't depend on it as an income).

[AndrewT]

The game of poker attracts many different personality types, as different people play for different reasons. What does a certain person get out of the game? Are they just looking for something to idle away some time, have a bit of fun? Do they view the game as a job, their main desire to make money? Or are they a gambler, seeking the adrenalin rush of the big pots and big wins?

Trivial, you are quite clearly a gambler ('I plunged my last few quid into an online account ', 'Despite its obvious -EV, I was hooked', 'in the hope of higher returns, ever faster') who suffers from a lack of discipline (all the playing whilst drunk). You do some of the right things (reading about strategy, thinking about your game) but can you develop the disassociation needed to survive the variance of the game? The bank management skills ('I had set my entire bankroll on the line in one game')?

Obviously I don't know you, all I have to go on is your post, but here's my advice.

Have a really good think about whether you can genuinely retain control over your gambling emotions. If you think you'll have a problem with this, walk away from the game.

With your 'lingering desire to play for more "interesting" stakes than I can currently afford' I fear you are doomed to forever be raped by the variance monster. You'll do well for good periods, you'll build up your winnings at the lower limits - things will go smoothly. Then will come the urge to move up in limits, but you won't have the bankroll to sustain the dips in the rollercoaster - you'll have too much of your money on the table.

One of the first things that good poker players have to learn is to not be scared of money - if you are you'll be intimidated by other players' big bets and can be bullied. However, whilst money is not to be feared, it is to be respected. Each pound has the same value; if you play whilst drunk, or if your judgement is clouded by thrill-chasing, you'll value money lost less than money won, which is not what you want.

Maybe you will be able to overcome your shortcomings - after all, that's what self-improvement is. Bear in mind though, that no number of books, articles, or forum posts will be able to curb your gambling desires. You're looking to regulate an addictive tendency - in exactly the same way that smokers who want to give up are. Ask any ex-smoker how easy it was for them to give up, and I'll think you'll get a measure of the challenge ahead of you. However, the fact that there are ex-smokers, should give you hope.

AS an aside, I do enjoy the irony of a person called Trivial posting one of the more serious messages on the forum.

[jezza777]

An inspiring post. Self awareness, analyses and critisism is one of the many traits of a good player. Correct Bankroll management takes a huge amount of self discipline and I would say poor use of it is why most players go broke. I went through my online bankroll in December to the tune of £3000 and have taken a break from internet poker and am concentrating on playing live whenever I can. I really think that most players go through this at one time or another and the best thing to do is to treat is as a learning experiance . Oh and stay off the blackjack.

good luck

jezza