QQ out of position, out of ideas

[cambridgealex]

Straddled to 4, Neil Jakally Giblin raises to 16. I 3bet the SB to £50 with . Exactly the same happened the hand previous. He called and I cbet JJ3 and he folded). I knew he'd know my range was be really strong having done it twice in row out of the blinds, but I can't flat from the SB with QQ and have the BB and straddle come in. I just had to hope he'd level himself/ had a hand to go with.

Anyway, the straddler (the old fishy guy from the aces post) cold calls the £50. Neil calls (I'm giving some chat about how my range is really strong in this spot, he agrees saying "I know it's very strong". Fairly standard kind of levelling banter in this game). I'm playing £450 ish

Flop £153

Shit. Neil has a set. I check, Fish checks, Neil tank checks.

Turn 

I bet £80, fish calls, Neil calls.

River

I check, fish announces "350", Neil folds. I fold.

Why did I bet the turn? Dunno. What do you think of it? I can't see Neil having Ax here very often. Fish's range is massive, thought I had to protect my hand and value bet it vs draws.

What should I do if Neil bets the flop?  With what frequencies would you cbet this flop in this spot?

Folding the river obv standard but got shown the to make me feel even worse about the hand!

[SuuPRlim]

cbet the flop to protect vs Neil who is unlikely to get out of line given how unpredictable the other guy is and for straight up value vs the old guy who lets face it isn't folding even a naked gutshot here.

As played dont even hate the chk flop bet turn line the reasons you state are decent this card hits your range wayyy harder than Neil's and we can actually still vbet vs the fish. once Neil calls tho and the river is a diamond you're life is officially terrible and even though I still REALLLLLYYYY wanna vbet vs the fish I just think it might be terrible with Neil in the hand. either bet £225 or just chk fold and im pretty sure chk folding is proly best as played.

really dont mind your line at all, I know it prolly feels like you butchered it because you got shown a bluff but as it happens I think you have not far off the bottom of your range here and that makes the £350 blluff terrible just so happens you had to fold - really don't think calling is much of an option given how many legitimate hands better than you he can bet here and how many hands worse he prolly chks back.

[EvilPie]

This 'old fish' has pwned you twice now.

Maybe it's time to give him a bit of credit for actually having a functional brain?

[cambridgealex]

This 'old fish' has pwned you twice now.

Maybe it's time to give him a bit of credit for actually having a functional brain?

Not in this lifetime

[Pinchop73]

This 'old fish' has pwned you twice now.

Maybe it's time to give him a bit of credit for actually having a functional brain?

Yeah...no

[Skippy]

You've got to bet the flop, surely.. You're going to get called by loads of hands that you are beating. I'm mystified as to why you are giving free cards on this board.

[stato_1]

Why did I bet the turn? Dunno. What do you think of it? I can't see Neil having Ax here very often. Fish's range is massive, thought I had to protect my hand and value bet it vs draws.

Why can't Neil have Ax very often? How deep are you pre?

[SuuPRlim]

Why did I bet the turn? Dunno. What do you think of it? I can't see Neil having Ax here very often. Fish's range is massive, thought I had to protect my hand and value bet it vs draws.

Why can't Neil have Ax very often? How deep are you pre?

I think the point is tho that the ACE hits Alex much harder than it hits Neil, speshly given the flop chk.

[SuuPRlim]

You've got to bet the flop, surely.. You're going to get called by loads of hands that you are beating. I'm mystified as to why you are giving free cards on this board.

One positive for chking the flop is that Alex under-reps his hand and the ranges he gets action from on the flop are likely to have quite strong equity, whereas they could both lose equity on the turn and then start to semi-bluff. So that's undoubtedly a positive reason to chk the flop, and if it comes the  OTT we'll prolly have to be chking and folding but thats not the end of the world imo

This 'old fish' has pwned you twice now.

Maybe it's time to give him a bit of credit for actually having a functional brain?

I can't give him credit for "Owning Alex" in this hand, whereas I'm perfectly open to the fact that he may well be a shrewder player/person than Alex gives him credit for this particular hand seems really really bad - speshly when he is actually playing vs two pretty dam strong ranges that he happens to have run into the bottom of in this hand.

[Boba Fett]

really dont mind your line at all, I know it prolly feels like you butchered it because you got shown a bluff but as it happens I think you have not far off the bottom of your range here and that makes the £350 blluff terrible just so happens you had to fold - really don't think calling is much of an option given how many legitimate hands better than you he can bet here and how many hands worse he prolly chks back.

What is Alex range on the river when he checks?  Id imagine when he checks river he almost never has a straight/flush/Ax/set.  So is his range not capped at 1 pair hands + random air?

Out of interest, In this river spot, what would you do if you had AQ and why?

[TheFallen]

Have to bet the flop or check fold. Plans to check call lead to unplayable situations vs Neil alone nevermind having spewtard left to act.

Whenever there is a spewy guy just forget about the reg and go for the value imo. Perfect situation is C bet, fish raises And prices Neil out and you jam for value.

[cambridgealex]

Have to bet the flop or check fold. Plans to check call lead to unplayable situations vs Neil alone nevermind having spewtard left to act.

Whenever there is a spewy guy just forget about the reg and go for the value imo. Perfect situation is C bet, fish raises And prices Neil out and you jam for value.

Ok thanks.

My concern was betting the flop and Neil raising me. I think he can rep way more than I can on that flop, and once the fish is out of the way, can make my life seriously hard in position. What would you do?

[TheFallen]

Have to bet the flop or check fold. Plans to check call lead to unplayable situations vs Neil alone nevermind having spewtard left to act.

Whenever there is a spewy guy just forget about the reg and go for the value imo. Perfect situation is C bet, fish raises And prices Neil out and you jam for value.

Ok thanks.

My concern was betting the flop and Neil raising me. I think he can rep way more than I can on that flop, and once the fish is out of the way, can make my life seriously hard in position. What would you do?

if u bet and if fish fold and if Neil raises then the right play would be to fold imo (tho i'd prob spew off anyway :-D). But its a big If, If, If situation. Like the chances of fish not at least peeling one on this board are <50% and once he is in it handicaps Neil's bluffing possibilities entirely.

[EvilPie]

What was the flop plan Alex? Was it check/raise or just check/call?

It's an absolutely evil flop for you and I don't know how I'd proceed without being in the game.

I'd have to lead flop here and then hate life when that A hits the turn.

Once the other A hits the river I have this habit of thinking that nobody could have another one so I just call.

[jakally]

Have to bet the flop or check fold. Plans to check call lead to unplayable situations vs Neil alone nevermind having spewtard left to act.

Whenever there is a spewy guy just forget about the reg and go for the value imo. Perfect situation is C bet, fish raises And prices Neil out and you jam for value.

Ok thanks.

My concern was betting the flop and Neil raising me. I think he can rep way more than I can on that flop, and once the fish is out of the way, can make my life seriously hard in position. What would you do?

If you bet the flop, I raise, but when you checked, and being pretty  sure you had a big hand, it looked like you were check jamming too often for me to bet.