I probably should not have got myself in this spot but now what

[Rod]

PokerStars Game #66179685753:  Omaha Pot Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2011/08/18 7:18:02 ET
Table 'Lilliana III' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bisquitgun ($19.38 in chips)
Seat 2: Prometei999 ($18.59 in chips)
Seat 4: Dotochka ($24.37 in chips)
Seat 5: AAroddersAA ($25.16 in chips)
bisquitgun: posts small blind $0.05
Prometei999: posts big blind $0.10
xt-fury: sits out
bisquitgun: posts the ante $0.02
Prometei999: posts the ante $0.02
Dotochka: posts the ante $0.02
AAroddersAA: posts the ante $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AAroddersAA [ ]
Dotochka: raises $0.33 to $0.43
AAroddersAA: calls $0.43
bisquitgun: folds
Prometei999: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Dotochka: bets $0.80
AAroddersAA: calls $0.80
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Dotochka: bets $1.70
AAroddersAA: raises $5.96 to $7.66
Dotochka: calls $5.96
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
grizsli joins the table at seat #6
Dotochka: checks
AAroddersAA: ?

In this hand I am on the button, I make a pretty loose call as I have been finding a bit of success doing this OTB and being able to take down quite a lot of pots, Dotochka had also not raised since I had been at the table which was only about 20 hands. Anyway I flop a queen which I reckon makes it less likely his hand is good enough to take too much pressure. I reckon he might have an over-pair or maybe a better queen, a good two pair or set of queens is unlikely, and he will check the turn and let me steal it.

The turn actually gives me an OESD to go with my pair. He bets again and I decide to go with my plan and make a raise as I now have outs to the nut's as well. He calls which is not what I wanted.

Every draw that anybody could have misses on the river and he checks to me.

I have shown strength on the turn and his call and check is saying to me that he has either missed some kind of draw (people usually seem to bet when they have made the goods) or was hoping to get to a cheap showdown.

I don't see how my hand can be good that often, but his hand also looks weak. so I think I should bet out, is this correct and how much should I bet on this?

I have not played the hand that great up till this point I know but I can still at least do the right thing here.

[boldie]

After mangling the hand thusfar you have to turn your hand into a bluff now (which it was already TBH) IMO and bet it hard.

[Q8Holds]

 Dont think hes folding anything here especially at 05/10 where people like the call butto, i check behind there is multiple draws he could of missed. If hes called this far i doubt hes folding the river

[pleno1]

huh? we can be gd right?

[Dubai]

If this was at higher stakes the river action could very well be

V Check, H bet, V call, H shows One Pair Queens, villain mucks

[pleno1]

fml, thought we had 2 pur

[TheFallen]

kinda drunk so prob change my mind when read back but in general dont turn ur hand into a semi bluff on the turn when nothing gets there coz u dont even fold out bottom 2. now though you prob beat enough of his range on the river to check back vs. risk the bluff.

if u call lthe turn then you have a lot of river 2 pair to hit that be good + the str8s but also it will be fairly obvious if you can rep diamonds or broadway type stuff a lot if he checks. 

but ye, vs.an unknown turning a hand into bluff when board doesn't really change wont be good in the longrun imo.

[Rod]

After mangling the hand thusfar you have to turn your hand into a bluff now (which it was already TBH) IMO and bet it hard.

But people seem to call down and fold the river to a bet all the time.

Is this bad because those are the people chasing draws and as literally every draw has missed I am probably beating them anyway?

In the actual hand I actually bet the pot and he folded, maybe I could get away with betting less and make it more profitable. Maybe he was drawing, missed and I would have won anyway - this sounds quite likely.

So it is better to check behind on the river?

[boldie]

TBH, the other guys are probably right in saying that checking behind is best as you're likely to beat the draws anyways.
I do think though that you can get a better hand to fold here occasionally so I don't think a bet is always out of order.

You have to fold pre though.

[pleno1]

cant we get like aaxx/kkxx with diamojnds/k10A wraps to fold? also even j4ddxx will probably get the fuck out.

[SuuPRlim]

I know this is /10c where everyone calls, but in general checking the river here and not bluffing is a huge huge mistake.

Not talking about this specific spot where you;re prolly getting callled by AA or 42 but in general this is a mandatory bluff. A pretty huge mistake people make in PLO is taking hands that run extremely close in equity to our villains range and showing them down.

Peel pre is fine imo, loose for sure but w/e IDK if you noticed ut you actually pick up a 4card wrap OTT so a 3 5 7 8 all make straights. I actually like the turn raise but be wary that at these stakes people's thought processes will be something like "he would never not raise a set OTF" and hero you down, the offsuit 4 isnt a card which should imrpve your hands immeadiate value very often (ud need 578 to be in your hand randomly, or, some AQ4*dd combo and this is a bad spot to raise 44 should you randomly have that also) so if you raise the turn then you MUST bluff the river.

[Rod]

I know this is /10c where everyone calls, but in general checking the river here and not bluffing is a huge huge mistake.

Not talking about this specific spot where you;re prolly getting callled by AA or 42 but in general this is a mandatory bluff. A pretty huge mistake people make in PLO is taking hands that run extremely close in equity to our villains range and showing them down.

Peel pre is fine imo, loose for sure but w/e IDK if you noticed ut you actually pick up a 4card wrap OTT so a 3 5 7 8 all make straights. I actually like the turn raise but be wary that at these stakes people's thought processes will be something like "he would never not raise a set OTF" and hero you down, the offsuit 4 isnt a card which should imrpve your hands immeadiate value very often (ud need 578 to be in your hand randomly, or, some AQ4*dd combo and this is a bad spot to raise 44 should you randomly have that also) so if you raise the turn then you MUST bluff the river.

Sorry I called a wrap, an OESD. Badly worded by me.

Happy enough having read this thread that the river is a bet, but how much is a good amount? I bet too much by betting the whole pot right?

[boldie]

I know this is /10c where everyone calls, but in general checking the river here and not bluffing is a huge huge mistake.

Not talking about this specific spot where you;re prolly getting callled by AA or 42 but in general this is a mandatory bluff. A pretty huge mistake people make in PLO is taking hands that run extremely close in equity to our villains range and showing them down.

Peel pre is fine imo, loose for sure but w/e IDK if you noticed ut you actually pick up a 4card wrap OTT so a 3 5 7 8 all make straights. I actually like the turn raise but be wary that at these stakes people's thought processes will be something like "he would never not raise a set OTF" and hero you down, the offsuit 4 isnt a card which should imrpve your hands immeadiate value very often (ud need 578 to be in your hand randomly, or, some AQ4*dd combo and this is a bad spot to raise 44 should you randomly have that also) so if you raise the turn then you MUST bluff the river.

Sorry I called a wrap, an OESD. Badly worded by me.

Happy enough having read this thread that the river is a bet, but how much is a good amount? I bet too much by betting the whole pot right?

Your object is to get him to fold, as you're not really beating anything. Pot or 80% of the pot is fine by me at this level (If this was £1-£2 I would probably say 3/4 pot will do) as oppos will be tempted to call a lot.

[SuuPRlim]

ye agreed, nice and big - wanna be able to bet big when we have it as well