I must be beat? and I have to call?

[TightEnd]

Robin Hood 4914617-88779 Holdem No Limit $2/$4
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Hand Start.
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 1 : leedoctor has $265.37
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 2 : Tight End has $268
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 3 : steely has $851.25
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 4 : petescott has $135.46
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 5 : piggle has $279
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 6 : jubes11 has $358.50
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 7 : hambone 399 has $377.08
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 8 : excalibur has $105
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Seat 9 : richdafish has $94
[Jan 5 12:42:18] : Tight End is the dealer.
[Jan 5 12:42:19] : steely posted small blind.
[Jan 5 12:42:21] : petescott posted big blind.
[Jan 5 12:42:21] : Game [88779] started with 9 players.
[Jan 5 12:42:21] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jan 5 12:42:21] : Seat 2 : Tight End has
[Jan 5 12:42:23] : piggle folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:26] : jubes11 folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:27] : hambone 399 folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:30] : excalibur folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:30] : richdafish folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:31] : leedoctor called $4
[Jan 5 12:42:36] : Tight End called $4 and raised $16
[Jan 5 12:42:38] : steely folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:40] : petescott folded.
[Jan 5 12:42:43] : leedoctor called $16
[Jan 5 12:42:43] : Dealing flop.
[Jan 5 12:42:43] : Board cards [ ]

[Jan 5 12:42:50] : leedoctor checked.
[Jan 5 12:42:54] : Tight End bet $32
[Jan 5 12:42:57] : leedoctor called $32 and raised $32
[Jan 5 12:43:13] : Tight End called $32
[Jan 5 12:43:13] : Dealing turn.
[Jan 5 12:43:13] : Board cards [ ]
[Jan 5 12:43:15] : leedoctor bet $181.37 and is All-in
[Jan 5 12:43:17] : Tight End ?

If he has trips I have eight outs for the straight and two queens to beat him

Got to call yes?

[ifm]

I'm really getting into these!!
I say the river bet is too big, i say he has JQ, KJ or AJ and feels he can win it here with this bet.
CALL!!!!

I prefer not to over analyse these as you only have limited time online.

[yt]

I would call and it's probably why I lose too much at cash games.
I also would have gone all in when he reraised you on the flop. Which come to think about it is another reason i lose a lot at cash games.
he limped from one of the button and called your 5x button raise. what does that mean? would he do that with AA KK? I doubt it. He 'may' have limped like he did but as soon as you showed him some action he would have reraised. So I guess he has what ifm said or maybe pp that tripped up. either way I couldn't fold. the pot is a little under 2-1 on the call right? argh its a decent fold but i couldnt do it CALLLLLLLLLLLL

[North Angel]

If its against leedoctor, he could be holding anything   

So call.

Ang

[TightEnd]

If its against leedoctor, he could be holding anything   

So call.

Ang

now she tells me.

[North Angel]

If its against leedoctor, he could be holding anything   

So call.

Ang

now she tells me.

tut you never asked.....

[TightEnd]

anyway, he's now in the notes

[North Angel]

anyway, he's now in the notes

What did he have?

[TightEnd]

[Jan 5 12:43:15] : leedoctor bet $181.37 and is All-in
[Jan 5 12:43:17] : Tight End called $181.37
[Jan 5 12:43:18] : Showdown!
[Jan 5 12:43:18] : Seat 2 : Tight End has
[Jan 5 12:43:20] : Seat 1 : leedoctor has
[Jan 5 12:43:20] : Seat 2 : Tight End has
[Jan 5 12:43:25] : Board cards [ As]
[Jan 5 12:43:25] : Seat 1 : leedoctor has
[Jan 5 12:43:25] : leedoctor has Two Pair: Jacks and
[Jan 5 12:43:25] : Seat 2 : Tight End has
[Jan 5 12:43:25] : Tight End has Pair: Queens
[Jan 5 12:43:25] : leedoctor wins $533.74 with Two Pair: Jacks and
[Jan 5 12:43:36] : Hand is over.

[Highstack]

He check minimum raised the flop and was hoping for a brick on the turn. The turn was a scare card even though he must have known that you hadn't raised 5*bb with KQ, but didn't want any cheap draws against him. This is why he correctly now pused in.

Your turn call was not a great one (even if you did fortunately have 16 outs when the cards flipped over), but you already know this and it was difficult to put him on a hand, but so many that he could bet with beat you.

His 5bb preflop call with J9o when out of position was awful and only he knows why he made it!

[totalise]

easy when you know the results!

[snoopy1239]

This situation often crops up in cash games. Whether it's against trips or 2 pair, many players do their stack holding the overpair.

This hand is made even more difficult by the flush draw and the jack. The presence of both means that TightEnd could be beating AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, AQ suited, AT suited, and so on. Therefore, there are quite a few beatable hands that may raise Tighty's flop bet.

And then, to make matters worse, the turn brings an up and down straight draw. So now the information is even harder to decipher, plus, Tighty now has potential outs to tempt him.

This is a very unfortunate turn of events.

Raising again on the flop won't tell you too much either because your 'online' opponent still won't fold some of the potential beatable hands mentioned above.

Personally, I'd be tempted to fold on the flop. Assuming that you're better than the rest of the table, you can probably wait for better opportunites where you are more certain about the strength of their hand. Here you are forced to guess, and, even if you are proved right, you can still be outdrawn.

[Highstack]

I don't really agree with those potential holdings snoopy. If he has something like AJ and the flop comes J high there is no way he is looking to check raise in case TE takes the free card behind him and then certainly not min raise. This play can only occur, if you KNOW your opponent will make a continuation bet regardless of hitting that flop or not.

[TightEnd]

so Highstack you might fold to the flop raise or would you have done your $ here?

[snoopy1239]

I think I'm probably in the minorty here when I say I'd fold on the flop.

It's just that, from my experience, a minumum checkraise is nearly always a sign of trips and two pair. Once you call, you let yourself either become pot committed or tempted by an inviting turn card.