Dale Farm evictions

[EvilPie]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

The reason for numerous factories being shut down is because the workers insist on being over paid for what should be a low paid job. This means the factory doesn't make any money so has to shut down.

If there were people in this country prepared to work based on the true value of the skill they provided we could get back to manufacturing on a par with any other country.

If people want to fight for their jobs they have to step up and work harder to produce more per £ or work for less money. Pretty simple really.

[millidonk]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

The reason for numerous factories being shut down is because the workers insist on being over paid for what should be a low paid job. This means the factory doesn't make any money so has to shut down.

If there were people in this country prepared to work based on the true value of the skill they provided we could get back to manufacturing on a par with any other country.

If people want to fight for their jobs they have to step up and work harder to produce more per £ or work for less money. Pretty simple really.

not so sure about this. Quoting it as THE reason is abso redic. In all honesty its probs the most insignificant factor.

Legit reasons:

No demand = No supply.. People have less income, therefore can't afford to buy as much.
Cheaper to buy direct from countries where there is no minimum wage in place so obv workers get paid less over there therefore stuff is cheaper.
The decline in resources needed drives costs, again making it cheaper to source direct from abroad.
Rise in taxes
In some cases just piss poor run companies

There is a minimum wage in this country, it is there for a reason, people should not be expected to work for less and i don't remember the last time i heard of factory workers striking unlike Pilots, teachers and firemen.

I also think there should be more taxes on stuff sourced from abroard that we could make here in the uk.

[AndrewT]

This is the dark side of globalisation. It was all well and good when we could buy clothes for a few quid at Primark but now we can't compete for jobs without reducing our standard of living to that of shit countries.

[EvilPie]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

The reason for numerous factories being shut down is because the workers insist on being over paid for what should be a low paid job. This means the factory doesn't make any money so has to shut down.

If there were people in this country prepared to work based on the true value of the skill they provided we could get back to manufacturing on a par with any other country.

If people want to fight for their jobs they have to step up and work harder to produce more per £ or work for less money. Pretty simple really.

not so sure about this. Quoting it as THE reason is abso redic. In all honesty its probs the most insignificant factor.

Legit reasons:

No demand = No supply.. People have less income, therefore can't afford to buy as much.
Cheaper to buy direct from countries where there is no minimum wage in place so obv workers get paid less over there therefore stuff is cheaper.
The decline in resources needed drives costs, again making it cheaper to source direct from abroad.
Rise in taxes
In some cases just piss poor run companies

There is a minimum wage in this country, it is there for a reason, people should not be expected to work for less and i don't remember the last time i heard of factory workers striking unlike Pilots, teachers and firemen.

I also think there should be more taxes on stuff sourced from abroard that we could make here in the uk.

Getting slightly off topic now but what the hell. It's fun.

I agree it's not the only reason. Obviously that's ridic. (Not redic).

You say no demand = no supply but then say that we're bringing stuff in from other countries? Obviously the demand is there if we're having to bring it in?

If you leave market forces to work on their own then supply and demand pretty much sorts itself out.

There's demand for a product at a certain price. If it's too expensive people won't buy it.

This should be exactly the same in the jobs market. If there's a demand for a job you have to pay people to do that job. If it's a piss easy job then loads of people can do it so it becomes cheaper. If it's a pilot then not so many can do it so they can demand higher wages.

The problem comes when there's outside interference such as governments imposing minimum wages to artificially increase the value of a job. This then artificially increase the price of the product they are making so there is no longer the demand for the product. The job then disappears completely.

The reason people strike is also because of outside interference. Do you think they'd strike if they thought they'd lose their job because of it? The government puts various laws in place to protect these people when they decide to have a strike.

I guarantee that all those BA workers who recently staged a mass walk out wouldn't have done so if they thought for one second they might just get sacked and replaced by other people who could do the same job.

You don't hear of factory workers striking because there aren't any anymore. The ones that had strikes years ago managed to get themselves better wages which was lovely. Unfortunately they have now done themselves out of jobs because all the factories had to close down.

[kukushkin88]

This is the dark side of globalisation. It was all well and good when we could buy clothes for a few quid at Primark but now we can't compete for jobs without reducing our standard of living to that of shit countries.

Marxism ftw (real Marxism, not what the communist nutcases thought marxism was).

[jizzemm]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

Would the struggle to gain further employment be partly due to them believing certain jobs are beneath them?

Highly doubt that, it will be down to the lack of jobs available... lack of funding for further training etc. in this day and age people are happy/willing to do anything to get them and their families by imo. Its not just forces but many NHS staff and civil servants have undergone cuts. Good majority of the public sector. Why so cynical? You think the economy is in a great state and the future is rosie? or because you are doing well then there is no reason everyone else shouldn't be? Don't get your line here

I dont really want to get into the whole global issue etc because I frankly don't know anything, but your statement about lack of jobs is not true (in my case anyway)..

I have in the past 2 months TRIED to employ 3 people who are currently on the dole, on every occasion these people were living at home with no expenses other than day to day life, and after spending countless hours training them they have quit (various reasons, from not worth it to having to work to hard).. Granted it was a bar/restaurant job, but around 30 hours per week..

[millidonk]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

Would the struggle to gain further employment be partly due to them believing certain jobs are beneath them?

Highly doubt that, it will be down to the lack of jobs available... lack of funding for further training etc. in this day and age people are happy/willing to do anything to get them and their families by imo. Its not just forces but many NHS staff and civil servants have undergone cuts. Good majority of the public sector. Why so cynical? You think the economy is in a great state and the future is rosie? or because you are doing well then there is no reason everyone else shouldn't be? Don't get your line here

I dont really want to get into the whole global issue etc because I frankly don't know anything, but your statement about lack of jobs is not true (in my case anyway)..

I have in the past 2 months TRIED to employ 3 people who are currently on the dole, on every occasion these people were living at home with no expenses other than day to day life, and after spending countless hours training them they have quit (various reasons, from not worth it to having to work to hard).. Granted it was a bar/restaurant job, but around 30 hours per week..

Guessing these people are living at home either with parents/ in council houses. The point i was making was ex forces, public sector workers who have had homes reposessed etc. I am well aware of the subculture who have seen their own parents never work and believe they shouldn't have too work themselves and try and do everything possible to play the system. I know a guy who has quit his job as the amount he will get in child tax credits, family allowance and whatever else he gets pisses on his current wage. Makes sense but it shouldn't work like that.

[nirvana]

Although I largely agree with Matt on the supply/demand/wage thing this country has other greed/incompetence/skill factors working against us being mass manufacturers again any time soon.

Germany is still a mass manufacturer and they have no minimum wage but (and I'm going to have to generalise here) the average factory worker is paid higher than in the UK, works less hours, is protected at a social level way beyond the British worker, enjoys better pensions and better health care.

We are generally less competent, less well trained, less qualified and less automated than they are. We generally invest far less in R & D and automation. Our stock market expects far higher returns than is typical in Germany and the money that companies earn is spread more evenly amongst the total teams in their companies - so the greed of top people here mitigates against us being successful. A choice between a big bonus or a higher level of ongoing investment will usually tend towards a short term big bonus here.

In short, given our low costs of employment, low costs to fire/make redundant we should be far more competitive and successful than Germany as a manufacturer but we're  not. We don't need to compete with low cost, very low waged countries - we just need to do better than our near neighbours and we're woefully inadequate at doing that.

UK brains tend to be focused primarily on making money rather than making things. This leads to outsourcing to low cost countries for relatively marginal savings on anything that is remotely technically complex (the main cost drivers tend to be materials, design and other G & A costs) so we can take money from low paid people here and fill richer peoples pockets - it's structural and hard to break down in the corporate environment.

[leethefish]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

Would the struggle to gain further employment be partly due to them believing certain jobs are beneath them?

i think that's very unfair.......

an average squaddie joins the army at 16 as a boy soldier when he leaves he has no experience of the real world, and has never had a proper job.
so its not that a job is beneath him but gaining employment is quite hard compaired to the average civvie.

as for the evictions that this thread was started i am on the fence

[ScottMGee]

I also think there should be more taxes on stuff sourced from abroard that we could make here in the uk.

Fundamentally flawed

1) other countries would simply retailate
2) followed to its extreme we would all be framework knitters working from home, wondering why we can't compete with the chinese.
3) it punishes everyone in the UK by making them pay more for goods
4) it encourages poor business practices
5) the USA tried it by taxing LCD screens that they felt were being imported too cheaply, whilst this protected the USA manufacturers of LCD screens it made USA laptop manufacturers uncompetitive (due to the high cost of screens) and production of laptops left the USA as a result.

[redarmi]

Germany is still a mass manufacturer and they have no minimum wage but (and I'm going to have to generalise here) the average factory worker is paid higher than in the UK, works less hours, is protected at a social level way beyond the British worker, enjoys better pensions and better health care.

We are generally less competent, less well trained, less qualified and less automated than they are. We generally invest far less in R & D and automation. Our stock market expects far higher returns than is typical in Germany and the money that companies earn is spread more evenly amongst the total teams in their companies - so the greed of top people here mitigates against us being successful. A choice between a big bonus or a higher level of ongoing investment will usually tend towards a short term big bonus here.

In short, given our low costs of employment, low costs to fire/make redundant we should be far more competitive and successful than Germany as a manufacturer but we're  not. We don't need to compete with low cost, very low waged countries - we just need to do better than our near neighbours and we're woefully inadequate at doing that.

UK brains tend to be focused primarily on making money rather than making things. This leads to outsourcing to low cost countries for relatively marginal savings on anything that is remotely technically complex (the main cost drivers tend to be materials, design and other G & A costs) so we can take money from low paid people here and fill richer peoples pockets - it's structural and hard to break down in the corporate environment.

Superb post and save me making pretty much all the same points.  Our system is overly geared towards shareholder value these days without any concept of shareholder responsibility.  I could now get my donkey jacket out of the loft and start blaming Thatcher but i will spare the thread......

[highmile]

Germany is still a mass manufacturer and they have no minimum wage but (and I'm going to have to generalise here) the average factory worker is paid higher than in the UK, works less hours, is protected at a social level way beyond the British worker, enjoys better pensions and better health care.

We are generally less competent, less well trained, less qualified and less automated than they are. We generally invest far less in R & D and automation. Our stock market expects far higher returns than is typical in Germany and the money that companies earn is spread more evenly amongst the total teams in their companies - so the greed of top people here mitigates against us being successful. A choice between a big bonus or a higher level of ongoing investment will usually tend towards a short term big bonus here.

In short, given our low costs of employment, low costs to fire/make redundant we should be far more competitive and successful than Germany as a manufacturer but we're  not. We don't need to compete with low cost, very low waged countries - we just need to do better than our near neighbours and we're woefully inadequate at doing that.

UK brains tend to be focused primarily on making money rather than making things. This leads to outsourcing to low cost countries for relatively marginal savings on anything that is remotely technically complex (the main cost drivers tend to be materials, design and other G & A costs) so we can take money from low paid people here and fill richer peoples pockets - it's structural and hard to break down in the corporate environment.

Superb post and save me making pretty much all the same points.  Our system is overly geared towards shareholder value these days without any concept of shareholder responsibility.  I could now get my donkey jacket out of the loft and start blaming Thatcher but i will spare the thread......

So very true and very well put.

[StuartHopkin]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

Would the struggle to gain further employment be partly due to them believing certain jobs are beneath them?

i think that's very unfair.......

an average squaddie joins the army at 16 as a boy soldier when he leaves he has no experience of the real world, and has never had a proper job.
so its not that a job is beneath him but gaining employment is quite hard compaired to the average civvie.

as for the evictions that this thread was started i am on the fence

Hey Lee, wasn't a direct comment about squaddies, more no peoples general attitude in the current job market.

So many people say they can't find any work and there are no jobs out there, but they wouldn't dream of walking into a shop, bar or fast food place to ask if there were any vacancies.

[leethefish]

I think the country should be more worried about the 36,300 home reposessions that occurred in 2010. Many of which had paid years of mortgages, council tax etc, etc and then get shafted due to the shit state of our country's economy.

Struggling with this, any general examples?

A good example is the last government over spending on the Military budget with redic campaigns all over the gaff, then this term cutting 12,000 personnel or whatever the exact figure is. These people have worked, paying council tax, rent or mortgages then depending on when they signed on the dotted line dictating which redundancy package they get. Some of this is enough to support a family for a few months, but many of these are struggling to gain further employment. Apparently the number of ex military in prison has sharply increased as well, numerous factories which have supported generations of families in the Midlands have been shut down as it is more economically viable to outsource from abroard.

Would the struggle to gain further employment be partly due to them believing certain jobs are beneath them?

i think that's very unfair.......

an average squaddie joins the army at 16 as a boy soldier when he leaves he has no experience of the real world, and has never had a proper job.
so its not that a job is beneath him but gaining employment is quite hard compaired to the average civvie.

as for the evictions that this thread was started i am on the fence

Hey Lee, wasn't a direct comment about squaddies, more no peoples general attitude in the current job market.

So many people say they can't find any work and there are no jobs out there, but they wouldn't dream of walking into a shop, bar or fast food place to ask if there were any vacancies.

as for general unemployed totally agree most just cant be arsed to work,

[highmile]

Wouldn't it be better if they built a fence to keep them in?