THEORY: BVB battles

[pleno1]

i spoke to a 600nl reg who said people were starting to call with 109s.

We discussed it and we came to conclusion his range would be 22-77 alot and some Ax hands

#outofretirement
#dontletthehaterswin

welcome to 2009.

[Whollyflush]

I'm not sure I really understand the preflop dynamics in 6max NLHE that well.

What I've seen from my 6max NL experience is 1) people 3bet the wrong hands constantly, and 2) people make way more bad calls than bad folds and 3) people 3bet from the SB or BB way too frequently.
Do you think this is accurate?

I'd disagree with this point in general, in fact i'd say ppl 3bet too much IP vs competent players, which only playing 100bb deep isn't going to bother a competent player who will adjust accordingly.

[mondatoo]

I'm not sure I really understand the preflop dynamics in 6max NLHE that well.

What I've seen from my 6max NL experience is 1) people 3bet the wrong hands constantly, and 2) people make way more bad calls than bad folds and 3) people 3bet from the SB or BB way too frequently.
Do you think this is accurate?

I'd disagree with this point in general, in fact i'd say ppl 3bet too much IP vs competent players, which only playing 100bb deep isn't going to bother a competent player who will adjust accordingly.

Agree that people don't 3b too freq, I'd say most regs in these games have decent 3b% in blinds. At lower stakes I'd say they don't do it enough from lp but assume you are talking about mid stakes.

Pads is right that a ton of regs peel in pos with sm/md pairs when they shouldn't.

[SuuPRlim]

i open fold small pairs bvb all the time, surely thats fine?

Thanks JP, whenever I play I always feel like when i open the cutoff/btn people just seem desperate to 3bet me from the blinds cos i'm prolly "opening wide" from LP. maybe this is more live, this happens a lot live.

I dont think 4b jamming 22-66 is really that good in this specific situation, yeah give the guy a widish 3bet range will mean you're gonna get a ton offolds and you win like 15 big blinds, but theoretically it seems a hard play to balance profitabley (plus seems easy to adjust to) and your equity is really gonna be damaged by every bad/spite call the 3bettor makes, and i think its not equitable at all to 4b/call 22-55. Which makes me think unless you're against a tight BB folding 22-55 is just a better play.

[redarmi]

Can everyone take Pleno's pha posts a bit more serious please and give him good, well thought out answers.  It keeps him occupied and stops him posting "Newcastle United are unbeatable" elsewhere which really tilts me.  kthxbye

[SuuPRlim]

"Newcastle United are unbeatable"

you said it

[mondatoo]

"Newcastle United are unbeatable"

you said it

Tbf he has a good point 

[redarmi]

"Newcastle United are unbeatable"

you said it

Tbf he has a good point 

I had my fingers crossed behind my back ldo.

[SuuPRlim]

"Newcastle United are unbeatable"

you said it

Tbf he has a good point 

I had my fingers crossed behind my back ldo.

no taksie-backsies

[pleno1]

"Newcastle United are unbeatable"

you said it

+1, greatest football team in the land.

This day 15 years ago ladies and gents.

[Skippy]

doesnt matter so much if its bvb or c/o vs btn imo, but ive seen it alot more at bvb than c/o vs btn, I've done it q a bit at bvb but never at c/o vs btn afair.

Of course it matters. Variables like opening range, f3bet, 4bet range all matter. Regardless, if your horse is doing this, tell them to get a grip. 3b/4b stuff is simple maths.

Link to maths, please.

[SuuPRlim]

doesnt matter so much if its bvb or c/o vs btn imo, but ive seen it alot more at bvb than c/o vs btn, I've done it q a bit at bvb but never at c/o vs btn afair.

Of course it matters. Variables like opening range, f3bet, 4bet range all matter. Regardless, if your horse is doing this, tell them to get a grip. 3b/4b stuff is simple maths.

Link to maths, please.

Shove equity calculater is what you need, pot/call%*equity when called or some such calc.

[Skippy]

doesnt matter so much if its bvb or c/o vs btn imo, but ive seen it alot more at bvb than c/o vs btn, I've done it q a bit at bvb but never at c/o vs btn afair.

Of course it matters. Variables like opening range, f3bet, 4bet range all matter. Regardless, if your horse is doing this, tell them to get a grip. 3b/4b stuff is simple maths.

Link to maths, please.

I quoted the wrong post really as I was busy donking it off in the £50 f/o at DTD. SkolSuper claims elsewhere that he has a game optimal solution (or at least some useful partial solution) for 3betting/4betting/5betting. I'd like to see it..

Shove equity calculater is what you need, pot/call%*equity when called or some such calc.

[skolsuper]

doesnt matter so much if its bvb or c/o vs btn imo, but ive seen it alot more at bvb than c/o vs btn, I've done it q a bit at bvb but never at c/o vs btn afair.

Of course it matters. Variables like opening range, f3bet, 4bet range all matter. Regardless, if your horse is doing this, tell them to get a grip. 3b/4b stuff is simple maths.

Link to maths, please.

SkolSuper claims elsewhere that he has a game optimal solution (or at least some useful partial solution) for 3betting/4betting/5betting. I'd like to see it..

Not sure I like the note of incredulity in your post, but whatever, I wrote this on the subject a few years ago: http://www.blackbeltpoker.com/articles/read/Three--Four-Betting---Part-Three

[GreekStein]

doesnt matter so much if its bvb or c/o vs btn imo, but ive seen it alot more at bvb than c/o vs btn, I've done it q a bit at bvb but never at c/o vs btn afair.

Of course it matters. Variables like opening range, f3bet, 4bet range all matter. Regardless, if your horse is doing this, tell them to get a grip. 3b/4b stuff is simple maths.

Link to maths, please.

SkolSuper claims elsewhere that he has a game optimal solution (or at least some useful partial solution) for 3betting/4betting/5betting. I'd like to see it..

Not sure I like the note of incredulity in your post, but whatever, I wrote this on the subject a few years ago: http://www.blackbeltpoker.com/articles/read/Three--Four-Betting---Part-Three

'0 members think this is
the nuts!'

bet you're glad you left mate!