Public Sector Strikes

[ACE2M]

i certainly didn't like the tone of the postings on this thread, it sounded childish, some one took some of my sweets away, i'm happy they're taking yours now.

Anyway, you're going to wheel out the same old tired right wing bollocks and i'm going to wheel out the same old left wing bollocks. we'll take it all as read from here because i can't be arsed.

[outragous76]

i certainly didn't like the tone of the postings on this thread, it sounded childish, some one took some of my sweets away, i'm happy they're taking yours now.

Anyway, you're going to wheel out the same old tired right wing bollocks and i'm going to wheel out the same old left wing bollocks. we'll take it all as read from here because i can't be arsed.

Unfortunately, your post shows up the silly mentaility of PS workers.

THE WHOLE WORLD IS SUFFERING, WE CANT AFFORD TO KEEP DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING, THEREFORE THERE HAS TO BE CHANGES, we have had our changes, (and they are still coming thick and fast), the public sector are just taking theirs (very badly)

[Bongo]

i certainly didn't like the tone of the postings on this thread, it sounded childish, some one took some of my sweets away, i'm happy they're taking yours now.

Anyway, you're going to wheel out the same old tired right wing bollocks and i'm going to wheel out the same old left wing bollocks. we'll take it all as read from here because i can't be arsed.

It seems rather odd that the left wing view is the people who have lost something should ensure the people who haven't don't.

[nirvana]

I agree with you there Guy. If her job is awful and she could get 2-3 times the salary elsewhere then why doesn't she do that?

Because not everyone is driven to earn money purely for the sake of it.

They will drive out all the good staff who have the option to earn more and cost themselves more in the long run due to having to promote people less able to those postions.

Yeah right, there's a mass exodus pending, just lol

[ACE2M]

I agree with you there Guy. If her job is awful and she could get 2-3 times the salary elsewhere then why doesn't she do that?

Because not everyone is driven to earn money purely for the sake of it.

They will drive out all the good staff who have the option to earn more and cost themselves more in the long run due to having to promote people less able to those postions.

Yeah right, there's a mass exodus pending, just lol

Ha ha, i love snipey little posts based on absolutely nothing.

[ScottMGee]

Put in simple terms: -

The country (largely due to Gordon Brown) has maxed out its credit card and cannot afford to pay for the current public sector let alone the future pension benefits.
The average person now lives for 19 years in retirement as opposed to 9 years in the 60s, hence in simple terms public sector pensions have doubled.
Due to the collapse in tax revenues our national debt is approaching £1 trillion, which amazingly will have to be repaid at some point.
Public sector workers do not understand any of the above and think that simply taxing the rich will solve everything.

P.S. Offer me a final salary pension for a gross contribution of 9.6% (6.4% existing + 3.2% increase) and I would snap your hand off!

[nirvana]

I spent 7 weeks in hospital earlier this year and continue to benefit from a lot of ongoing care.

Gonna qualify some of my antipathy towards the public sector

I couldn't have more respect & admiration for the nurses, doctors, paramedics, porters, cleaners, care workers, volunteers and so on in the hospitals. Both for the level of care they provide and their extreme professionalism.

 I think Fireman and our Armed Forces are pretty special too.

If these people get the reward of a decent pension having genuinely 'served' society I'd have to be pleased.. even if we can't quite afford the levels they might have once aspired to. They are saving lives, or putting their lives on the line and this warrants a bit of special treatment. Coincidentally ? these people are also a section of the public sector that doesn't really strike.

It's the large swathe of clerical people who don't feel they should share the pain that get my dander up, and that's a terrifying sight

[ACE2M]

I spent 7 weeks in hospital earlier this year and continue to benefit from a lot of ongoing care.

Gonna qualify some of my antipathy towards the public sector

I couldn't have more respect & admiration for the nurses, doctors, paramedics, porters, cleaners, care workers, volunteers and so on in the hospitals. Both for the level of care they provide and their extreme professionalism.

 I think Fireman and our Armed Forces are pretty special too.

If these people get the reward of a decent pension having genuinely 'served' society I'd have to be pleased.. even if we can't quite afford the levels they might have once aspired to. They are saving lives, or putting their lives on the line and this warrants a bit of special treatment. Coincidentally ? these people are also a section of the public sector that doesn't really strike.

It's the large swathe of clerical people who don't feel they should share the pain that get my dander up, and that's a terrifying sight

they are by law not allowed to strike.

[nirvana]

I agree with you there Guy. If her job is awful and she could get 2-3 times the salary elsewhere then why doesn't she do that?

Because not everyone is driven to earn money purely for the sake of it.

They will drive out all the good staff who have the option to earn more and cost themselves more in the long run due to having to promote people less able to those postions.

Yeah right, there's a mass exodus pending, just lol

Ha ha, i love snipey little posts based on absolutely nothing.

TBF, you started the groundless piffle suggesting 'they will drive out all the good staff' - incred nonsense that was.

[nirvana]

I spent 7 weeks in hospital earlier this year and continue to benefit from a lot of ongoing care.

Gonna qualify some of my antipathy towards the public sector

I couldn't have more respect & admiration for the nurses, doctors, paramedics, porters, cleaners, care workers, volunteers and so on in the hospitals. Both for the level of care they provide and their extreme professionalism.

 I think Fireman and our Armed Forces are pretty special too.

If these people get the reward of a decent pension having genuinely 'served' society I'd have to be pleased.. even if we can't quite afford the levels they might have once aspired to. They are saving lives, or putting their lives on the line and this warrants a bit of special treatment. Coincidentally ? these people are also a section of the public sector that doesn't really strike.

It's the large swathe of clerical people who don't feel they should share the pain that get my dander up, and that's a terrifying sight

they are by law not allowed to strike.

Excellent and I kinda knew this, but I like to think they wouldn't anyway

[ACE2M]

I agree with you there Guy. If her job is awful and she could get 2-3 times the salary elsewhere then why doesn't she do that?

Because not everyone is driven to earn money purely for the sake of it.

They will drive out all the good staff who have the option to earn more and cost themselves more in the long run due to having to promote people less able to those postions.

Yeah right, there's a mass exodus pending, just lol

Ha ha, i love snipey little posts based on absolutely nothing.

TBF, you started the groundless piffle suggesting 'they will drive out all the good staff' - incred nonsense that was.

your opinion is based on?

Mine is based on those i know, of approx 25 people i know who work in the health service - its  about 30% who have left in the last 3 years purely for the fact that thay can earn more and have better pensions by doing so. They are mostly people who have studied for 3 to 7 years, have acheived and are top quality staff in whatever they would have chosen to do.

[ACE2M]

Put in simple terms: -

The country (largely due to Gordon Brown) has maxed out its credit card and cannot afford to pay for the current public sector let alone the future pension benefits.
The average person now lives for 19 years in retirement as opposed to 9 years in the 60s, hence in simple terms public sector pensions have doubled.
Due to the collapse in tax revenues our national debt is approaching £1 trillion, which amazingly will have to be repaid at some point.
Public sector workers do not understand any of the above and think that simply taxing the rich will solve everything.

P.S. Offer me a final salary pension for a gross contribution of 9.6% (6.4% existing + 3.2% increase) and I would snap your hand off!

Gordon Brown made terrible decisions during the boom and george osbourne is making equally awful decisions now. I fear the next 10 years far more than i did the last 4.

[TightEnd]

Ace2m, what should the chancellor be doing different? Your answer cannot include reference to increasing the deficit/spending as that is not an option

[nirvana]

The sector will suffer from the same degree of inertia that most sectors suffer from at times like this with people mostly staying put and a few (I accept) more talented people proving to be more mobile. I also see ultra talented doctors for example, coming from all over the world to work here so it's not a one way street.

I guess I just don't think it's as dramatic as you put it in terms of the numbers that might leave or the impact it would have. When people move on, however important or talented they seem, it is much like taking a hand out of a bucket of water. A few ripples and then......

I can't see a link from these thoughts to it costing more in the long run.

Anyway, nice talking to you and kudos to your better half

[doubleup]

The average person now lives for 19 years in retirement as opposed to 9 years in the 60s, hence in simple terms public sector pensions have doubled.

Sadly it seems that ppl simply can't understand this.  The model of most state/public sector pensions is that retirees are funded by workers.  This model must adjust.  The private sector has adjusted by failing final salary schemes and plumetting annuity rates.