Public Sector Strikes

[doubleup]

Its mostly academic anyway - the UK will be broke and unable to pay the pensions as now presumed.

The closest they will be able to get is to inflate away the promises

But that will only fck over me and everyone with a private pension and savings, public pensions are inflation linked (and still Red Simon moans)

[redsimon]

Its mostly academic anyway - the UK will be broke and unable to pay the pensions as now presumed.

The closest they will be able to get is to inflate away the promises

But that will only fck over me and everyone with a private pension and savings, public pensions are inflation linked (and still Red Simon moans)

You must have chosen a pretty bad private pension if youve no inflation linking in it

[TightEnd]

Not wanting to get too involved but


the Public sector still hugely underestimates the value of Defined Benefit pensions, linked to Final salary

All of the Private sector swiitched to Defined contribution pensions over the last 20 years. Far less lucrative for most and risky, dependent on retirement date and conditions at that time

As for these strikes, as I understand it the alternative to the current government policy is "cut but cut slower"

It's all semantics really, the country is in for a really rough time and the Public sector employees can strike all they like, but they need to get used to it....

Whoever is in power, the UK can't afford the impact of the baby boom generation retiring over the next 15 years

[RED-DOG]

F**k me even google has pickets today

Deserves more love.

[byronkincaid]

Its mostly academic anyway - the UK will be broke and unable to pay the pensions as now presumed.

The closest they will be able to get is to inflate away the promises

But that will only fck over me and everyone with a private pension and savings, public pensions are inflation linked (and still Red Simon moans)

You must have chosen a pretty bad private pension if youve no inflation linking in it

can you explain this? understand you can link an annuity when it's time to choose one, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying?

[AndrewT]

Quote from the Health Secretary today

A healthcare assistant joins the NHS at 30 and retires at 68 on about £18,500. He's taken a four-year career break and for a while he worked part-time. He will have personally paid about £27,000 into his pension and would have a pension worth around £9,000 a year. If he wanted a private pension of similar value, he would need to have invested in a fund of nearly a quarter of a million pounds.

And a radiographer works in the NHS from the age of 23 and retires at 68. She was 40 when the new scheme is introduced and had two short career breaks and a period of part-time working. She will have made personal contributions to her pension of about £70,000, which would give her a pension worth around £16,000 a year. To get the same from a private pension, she would have needed to invest nearly half a million pounds.

Essentially we are all fucked to a monumental degree. Right now public service workers are shielded somewhat from the shitstorm by the pensions they'll get that the private sector workers of the future will pay for. If you are a private sector worker under 40 your state pension will be zero.

These strikes are about them not realising this.

Of course if you are in the rich 1% it's all a handy divide and conquer diversion...

[redsimon]

Its mostly academic anyway - the UK will be broke and unable to pay the pensions as now presumed.

The closest they will be able to get is to inflate away the promises

But that will only fck over me and everyone with a private pension and savings, public pensions are inflation linked (and still Red Simon moans)

You must have chosen a pretty bad private pension if youve no inflation linking in it

can you explain this? understand you can link an annuity when it's time to choose one, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying?

I'm probably confusing things/side tracking....but, if I had a private pension and change employers its relatively straightforward to transfer my pension pot to new employer or continue paying in myself if the employer m,akes no contribution. When I reach retirement I can purchase an inflation linked Annuity?

However, once I leave the PCSPS (Civil Service Scheme) I can no longer contribute, no IFA with any sense would recommend transferring its nominal value to a Private Pension, and the only gaurantee (sp?) I was given when I left was the years I had paid into it would produce a Pension which would increase by RPI or 1.5% whichever was the greater until I reached pension age.

Now after I have left they (PCSPS) are reducing to uprating by CPI etc which everyone agrees is a lower figure.

Thats why I moan

Though I can see some of the points you guys make, I cannot be shocked Public Sector workers want to maintain their Pension provision and will go on strike to emphasise this opposition!

[Geo the Sarge]

Its mostly academic anyway - the UK will be broke and unable to pay the pensions as now presumed.

The closest they will be able to get is to inflate away the promises

But that will only fck over me and everyone with a private pension and savings, public pensions are inflation linked (and still Red Simon moans)

You must have chosen a pretty bad private pension if youve no inflation linking in it

can you explain this? understand you can link an annuity when it's time to choose one, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying?

You can choose to link your private pension contributions to inflation also. But like the public sector those who originally had their increase linked to RPI are now linked to the lower CPI...........................and most don't even know it.

Some Life Offices are still giving illustrations quoting RPI when in fact they are using CPI and quoting NAE (National Average Earnings) when in fact they are using AWE (Average weekly earnings).

Also anyone currently taking pension benefits under income drawdown has been well shat on over the last couple of years with worse to come.

I receive a public sector pension and also retain Final Salary with my current employers.

FWIW I also believe these strikes are pointless purely based on the fact that they are futile. Private pensions have probably suffered far greater than the public sector ones during all this.

Geo

[doubleup]

Its mostly academic anyway - the UK will be broke and unable to pay the pensions as now presumed.

The closest they will be able to get is to inflate away the promises

But that will only fck over me and everyone with a private pension and savings, public pensions are inflation linked (and still Red Simon moans)

You must have chosen a pretty bad private pension if youve no inflation linking in it

can you explain this? understand you can link an annuity when it's time to choose one, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying?

I'm probably confusing things/side tracking....but, if I had a private pension and change employers its relatively straightforward to transfer my pension pot to new employer or continue paying in myself if the employer m,akes no contribution. When I reach retirement I can purchase an inflation linked Annuity?

However, once I leave the PCSPS (Civil Service Scheme) I can no longer contribute, no IFA with any sense would recommend transferring its nominal value to a Private Pension, and the only gaurantee (sp?) I was given when I left was the years I had paid into it would produce a Pension which would increase by RPI or 1.5% whichever was the greater until I reached pension age.

Now after I have left they (PCSPS) are reducing to uprating by CPI etc which everyone agrees is a lower figure.

Thats why I moan

Though I can see some of the points you guys make, I cannot be shocked Public Sector workers want to maintain their Pension provision and will go on strike to emphasise this opposition!

All private defined benefits schemes have only discretionary increases above 2.5%, if inflation goes through the roof the schemes simply won't be able to afford innflation sized increases.  In a similar high inflation environment the difference between cpi/rpi would be negligible.

[Waz1892]

It baffles me that it all goes ahead in the first place...only 30% of those who could vote bothered to vote, and not everyone of those 30% voted to strike.

How can the unions say the have the backing of the public, when, overall they don't even have the full backing of thier own membership!

The Tories are in power even though they only got 36% of the vote in turnout of only 65%.

Which also baffles me!

[Waz1892]

It baffles me that it all goes ahead in the first place...only 30% of those who could vote bothered to vote, and not everyone of those 30% voted to strike.

How can the unions say the have the backing of the public, when, overall they don't even have the full backing of thier own membership!

My local school is shut due to teachers walking out, and over the past fortnight, I've seem more union reps in school then during the past 4 years telling teachers they should be members to "proctect themselves" .....nothing to do with boost strike numbers then no?

...

Most of the people out on strike aren't on a picket line - they're just enjoying the day off, which isn't surprising when they didn't vote for the strike.
I don't think it would be right to specify a specific turnout for a strike vote to be valid - but I do think it'd be fairer and easier if they introduced the rule that the unions were only allowed to pull out on strike the members who actually voted for it.

But one of  the very points to being part of the union is to have an voice and for them to make sure your voice is heard.  They take your membership fee, but then ignore your voice...so it is essential I think that the numbers do matter to see if a strike is valid. Why have a membership that you will ignore if you don't like what they say in the first place?

[Jon MW]

It baffles me that it all goes ahead in the first place...only 30% of those who could vote bothered to vote, and not everyone of those 30% voted to strike.

How can the unions say the have the backing of the public, when, overall they don't even have the full backing of thier own membership!

My local school is shut due to teachers walking out, and over the past fortnight, I've seem more union reps in school then during the past 4 years telling teachers they should be members to "proctect themselves" .....nothing to do with boost strike numbers then no?

...

Most of the people out on strike aren't on a picket line - they're just enjoying the day off, which isn't surprising when they didn't vote for the strike.
I don't think it would be right to specify a specific turnout for a strike vote to be valid - but I do think it'd be fairer and easier if they introduced the rule that the unions were only allowed to pull out on strike the members who actually voted for it.

But one of  the very points to being part of the union is to have an voice and for them to make sure your voice is heard.  They take your membership fee, but then ignore your voice...so it is essential I think that the numbers do matter to see if a strike is valid. Why have a membership that you will ignore if you don't like what they say in the first place?

If you really want your voice to be heard you can vote no - my thinking is that the people who don't vote get ignored completely. They don't count towards getting a majority - but they also can't go out on strike if one is called.

There is a deeper underlying issue concerning the pressure that people in some industries get put under to join a union which contributes to the disparity between how many members a union has and how many of it's members actually do anything - but I don't really see an easy way to fix that.

[ACE2M]

i'm surprised there is no sympathy whatsoever for people who earn small salaries, do shit jobs that you wouldn't do and receive relatively poor pensions who are being told to take an effective 5% pay cut, pay another 5% more into their pensions, work for longer and receive less than they were promised.

it would appear you all lap up the tory spin on everything. The median national health service pension is £4000 pa.

bring on the flaming......

[Jon MW]

i'm surprised there is no sympathy whatsoever for people who earn small salaries, do shit jobs that you wouldn't do and receive relatively poor pensions who are being told to take an effective 5% pay cut, pay another 5% more into their pensions, work for longer and receive less than they were promised.

it would appear you all lap up the tory spin on everything. The median national health service pension is £4000 pa.

bring on the flaming......

In what sense small salaries?
In what sense shit jobs?
In what sense poor pensions?

must be nice to have a £4k pension imo

Some of them obviously do have small salaries in shit jobs with poor pensions - but it's really not indicative of the overall picture

[Solaris]

i'm surprised there is no sympathy whatsoever for people who earn small salaries, do shit jobs that you wouldn't do and receive relatively poor pensions who are being told to take an effective 5% pay cut, pay another 5% more into their pensions, work for longer and receive less than they were promised.

it would appear you all lap up the tory spin on everything. The median national health service pension is £4000 pa.

bring on the flaming......

Such as?