Public Sector Strikes

[StuartHopkin]

How much of our national debt could the Guardian's tax dodging pay off? 

They pay their tax....they just pay it in the Caymans...obv the Guardian is a Cayman newspaper and not a British one.

Is this not what Vodaphone would do if they were forced to pay in full, its better to have them pay something than force them out the country?

[boldie]

How much of our national debt could the Guardian's tax dodging pay off? 

They pay their tax....they just pay it in the Caymans...obv the Guardian is a Cayman newspaper and not a British one.

Is this not what Vodaphone would do if they were forced to pay in full, its better to have them pay something than force them out the country?

Yeah, that's pretty much the argument. It's a big problem when dealing with big business TBH. Moving one office to a tax haven is enough for them to dodge paying loads of cash. You can't blame them TBH, they are obviously mainly responsible to their share holders and noone expects them to feel a moral obligation.

I do think it's funny that the Guardian does it though..they are very keen on hammering home leftist ideas but don't want to act like it themselves.

[kinboshi]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/11/ftse100-subsidiaries-tax-data

[kinboshi]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1611272/Super-rich-paying-no-income-tax.html

(I think I read something, somewhere, probably on the internet, so it must be true, that Dyson was the only Brit from the Top 100 Rich list that pays income tax to the government)

[boldie]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/11/ftse100-subsidiaries-tax-data

GMG not listed in that article?

[kinboshi]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/11/ftse100-subsidiaries-tax-data

GMG not listed in that article?

Not listed on the spreadsheet.

[boldie]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/11/ftse100-subsidiaries-tax-data

GMG not listed in that article?

Not listed on the spreadsheet.

No surprise really that the article doesn't even include a footnote to say "BTW, our parent company is no better than the big ones we are just having a pop at here"

[kinboshi]

Just completed my tax return.  Doubt that's going to make any significant dent in anything though, other than my bank account.

[boldie]

Just completed my tax return.  Doubt that's going to make any significant dent in anything though, other than my bank account.

You should get Bopkin's guy to have a look at it that way you too can have a nice flash holiday in the next couple of weeks.

*sits back and waits for Boshi's Cape Verde brag*

[kinboshi]

Just completed my tax return.  Doubt that's going to make any significant dent in anything though, other than my bank account.

You should get Bopkin's guy to have a look at it that way you too can have a nice flash holiday in the next couple of weeks.

*sits back and waits for Boshi's Cape Verde brag*

[nirvana]

Read an interesting article in the Sunday Times a month or so back.

It listed FTSE 100 companies where the CEO's salary was higher than their company's corporation tax bill. Very surprised by the number on the list.

I hate the moral turpitude at the top of business as much as I do the entitlement culture of, just for example, the public sector.

In the end I think we all just go along with things, cause we're all pretty rich by global standards. And TBF, the better offness of a FTSE CEO on millions a year versus me is a tiny gap compared with the better offness of me versus a rural 3rd worlder and I'm not whinging about that too much.
 

[mulhuzz]

Read an interesting article in the Sunday Times a month or so back.

In the end I think we all just go along with things, cause we're all pretty rich by global standards. And TBF, the better offness of a FTSE CEO on millions a year versus me is a tiny gap compared with the better offness of me versus a rural 3rd worlder and I'm not whinging about that too much.
 

v solid point imo. it's all relative, yo.

[Jon MW]

...

OK, so the private sector does not necessarily get such pensions - but throughout their careers they can expect (in some cases disgustingly big) bonuses, share issues, company cars etc. None of that is on offer to the public sector. Over the course of a 30 - 40 year career all those perks add up.

...

Private Sector is this big:
<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Private sector employees who get big bonuses and share issues: <---->

I know plenty of people who have got 'company' cars with their job - ones that worked in the public as well as the private sector


Apparently there used to be a time when the terms and conditions were generally worse in the public sector - but it's not been during my working life



It's not that anybody doesn't think it's bad that the pensions will be downgraded - it would be great if everybody in the public sector had a brilliant pension just like it'd be great if the state pension kept everyone in the same style they had when they were working.

But it's not possible.

It's already been mentioned on this thread - nearly all the good private pension deals were done away with 2 or 3 years ago; when the companies did that they said - "look at your terms and conditions, they say we can do this" - it still comes back to the same identical principle, this is just the public sector catching up.

[Jon MW]

Also, your illustration of the public sector being represented by:

... Nurses, Firemen and Police ...

and the private sector being represented by:

...hedge fund manager, a banker or that overpaid consultant...

doesn't exactly scream 'objectivity'

[mulhuzz]

Yeah sure, adjust our pensions - but IMO they should also be looking towards greatly increasing taxation on the wealthy. Being one for equality, I also advocate smashing the benefits system. In Germany people are allowed to claim for a small period of time - once that is up then they are put to work by the state undertaking tasks that the normal workforce would have no desire to do.

I'm sorry, whilst I agree with lotttts of what you posted (although don't support the strikes because I think they aren't an effective form of protest), I have to flick it in and call here.

The benefit system in Germany is incredibly, incredibly generous, and it's an oft misquoted myth that you don't get benefits. Whilst true that you don't get unemployment benefit after a certain period of time, this is only after (varies depending on a lot of factors eg marital status, if you have a car, etc etc) at least 6 months where they've been paid at least half (and often much, much more, up to 80% iirc) of their previous salary and turned down multiple job offers. Unemployement benefit is then replaced by a variety of other benefits which make sure you have a roof, basic living items (e.g. if your washing machine breaks they will replace it, etc) and can buy food (although this varies by state on how it's administered). This is all part of the Hartz-IV legislation where they asked the former Director of HR at Volkswagen to resolve unemployment benefits. As the IV tells you, he had attempts I, II and III already, and the IVth incarnation isn't really widely supported by business (who pay for a lot of it), it has stuck.

There's a famous (well, in Germany, lol) case from Bavaria where a guy turned down lots of jobs and was on his last chance, but had a nice car, 4 contract mobile phones and a variety of other benefits and the Bild newspaper (like the Sun, with some Daily Mail tendancies) went mental about it and elicited a response from the CSU (like the Tories, but only in Bavaria) head for work. He snap offered the guy a job as a researcher in his office, but he turned it down. He lost his benefit but reclaimed it all in other benefits. Cue absolute life tilt from the Bild.

Ofc I agree that benefit and social welfare reform is really important, but to follow the German system would be a mistake.