Weird spot, live £2/£5

[Mitch]

Games £2/£5 Hold'em, pretty decent table with 2 whales, some solid players, and a guy i cant really work out (villain)

Ive not been too active in the game, pretty card dead and not finding any good spots.

UTG limps for £10 (Whale 1, playing £600)
CO Limps (Whale 2, playing £2k)
SB Limps (Early 30's, has been the most active 3 and 4 betting, likes to take initiative in hands but prob over aggro in spots and a bit spewy. Has tried some big bluffs which havent worked but not necessarily terrible lines, just walked into hands, but we know he doesn't need to have the absolutes to start putting his money in) (Sounds like someone i know)

We find   in BB and make it £75

UTG and CO fold, SB Makes it £235 playing £3k effective

What sort of hands would you expect him to have here? Best line?




We call anyway, hoping he will barrell into us and having position.

Flop  

He bets £300.

We?

[cambridgealex]

Games £2/£5 Hold'em, pretty decent table with 2 whales, some solid players, and a guy i cant really work out (villain)

Ive not been too active in the game, pretty card dead and not finding any good spots.

UTG limps for £10 (Whale 1, playing £600)
CO Limps (Whale 2, playing £2k)
SB Limps (Early 30's, has been the most active 3 and 4 betting, likes to take initiative in hands but prob over aggro in spots and a bit spewy. Has tried some big bluffs which havent worked but not necessarily terrible lines, just walked into hands, but we know he doesn't need to have the absolutes to start putting his money in) (Sounds like someone i know)

We find  in BB and make it £75

UTG and CO fold, SB Makes it £235 playing £3k effective

What sort of hands would you expect him to have here? Best line?

With villain as descirbed I'd be 4betting to get it in here, QQ is too vulnerable as it's going to come K or A high 40% of the time and will totally hamper you're chances of getting stacks in. I'd be way happier setting the tarp with KK or AA.

Flop 

He bets £300.

We?

See, look what happened

I'd certainly be calling the first barrel then re-evaluating, not really sure what to do if he fires again on almost every turn card. ghey spot. It's easier to play when it's all in pre, on their backs, do what mitch does best.

[stato_1]

some solid players

Fuck you mate I'm an animal

And yeah what Alex said

[jakally]

If we are both playing £3k, and you have no history, and you haven't been playing many pots, I think flatting the £235 is fine.

I am assuming a straddle? ('Limps for £10"?).
If yes, villain has put 23 BB's in so far, and, by raising, we are hoping he gets the other 280 ish in with JJ/TT.
Unlikely to happen.
(I don't think 4 betting is bad, but if we get it in, his range is almost certainly ahead of QQ).
We have position, and can play well postflop.

Calling the flop and evaluating the turn is ok I think.

[titaniumbean]

You got backraised met.


Just fold pre you can't beat that.

[Honeybadger]

If we are both playing £3k, and you have no history, and you haven't been playing many pots, I think flatting the £235 is fine.

Yes, flatting best IMHO. We can choose whether to go broke on a low flop/turn, and we do so against a wider range.

[action man]

very intricate line to overcall super strong hoping for a squeeze from you. Prob happy to get it in vs him here. Once ive peeled im just gonna call/call/call/call

[Mitch]

Yeh, i think hes more likely to barrell off, than call it off pre.

Interested to see what kind of range people are assigning him here. I thought the only value hands he can have are like 77-TT, AQ, AK AJs maybe?

Seemed he may be trying to keep the fish in with their raggy hands and win a nice pot on the right flops, but now seeing as theyve folded, he just wants to get money in with what he considers to be ahead of my range..

Anyway, i call the £300.

Turn bringing second flush draw, goes check check.

  on the river and he leads for £600.

What are we doing now?

[pleno1]

although hes less liekly to get it in pre, if we put a small 4b in then he will probably call oop, live fish never fold.

example.

5 £10 limps, we make it £75, he makes it £235, We make it £440.  It helps the pts ratio, gives us inititive, and times he flops a pair etc he's gonna struggled to get rid. And if he does decide to 5b jam then I guess we can make a call as he should just never have a value hand.

[SuuPRlim]

you're not ISO'ing to £75 that wide surely, so the £253 3bet is prolly pretty strong, and you're calling is also pretty strong, so we;re dealing with pretty strong (not necessarily "premium") ranges.

I think it's becoming stnd for people to bet these boards with KK over chk/calling these days, and obv he bets this flop with his "air" (which he doesnt have TOO often cos most of his lighter 3bets will be strong high card hands which we block quite well) but the only legit value (stack off) hands he can have here are AA and AK which is really thin, so calling the flop is pretty straightforward I think. The complex part of the hand imo is the turn, not having the in our hand and the being on the board makes it MORE of a call again imo but that gonna be totally dependent on your personal read of this guy and how well he reads hands, you're range right now looks like JJ/QQ/A[J-K] and maybe one of the flush draw combo's he himself isnt blocking and if he knows this he could feasibly try triple barrel here cos his range is v strong (albeit thin) by the time he's betting the turn/river and you're almost always bluff catching. if he is generic live player then if he bets again he has AK prolly and puts you on a weak ace and flush draw and will prolly bet quite big OTT.

If he CHECKS the turn then your decision imo is to either chk back the turn and fold the river or you could start bluffing and hoping he folds AJ or KK  

[Mehtab]

I agree with Alex's line and reasoning. Pre I'm happy to get it in as from your description of villain he's looking to run the table and take a lot of pots. At this point i don't give him credit for any hand that's beating me and at absolute best AK. The 4bet also gives a chance to re-evaluate pre if you do get 5bet, as you will only have around 15% of your stack in so not a "got to call it off" once you 4bet situation.

Obv don't mind you flatting in position to get him to barrel into you on certain flops.

Personally i'm putting his range at 66-99, AK and A rags (8 and below).

Calling the flop in position is standard. The turn may have been the place to get the most info by betting yourself. I think by checking behind you've pretty much given your hand (decent pair) away.

I fold the river as i feel i'm only bluff-catching now and think many more times than not he has me beat here probably with a weak ace.

[DMorgan]

OP doen't say how deep you are with villain but pre he's absolutely FOS so my plan is to call/call/call/call/call until he has to turn his cards over

Really don't like 4b pre when he probs has some joke mitch special hand like the J6s

[AlexMartin]

toughest spot iv seen in a while actually.

meh, dunno. dislike call/call/call the most. not in love with 4b/c and hate 4b/f. fyl really.

[DMorgan]

Really don't see why anyone thinks he has anything thats not crushed by QQ pre. Reads say that he's competent tending towards spewy aggro. This is exactly the sort of spot that these players level themselves into. When Mitch flats pre his hand is so under-repped too.

IMO the scenario where he decides that Mitch is FOS pre, and still can be FOS when he peels so cbets 100% and therefore gets to the turn with a range that QQ are crushing is far far more likely than he limped KK+ pre when there are already 2 whales in the pot and only two people left to act behind. Mitch says he doesn't recognise the guy so unless he's been combing Alex's blog and heard about Mitch's spew cannon without having actually seen it, he's just clicking buttons and is FOS with no idea that he's been flatted by such a strong range.

[cambridgealex]

Really don't see why anyone thinks he has anything thats not crushed by QQ pre. Reads say that he's competent tending towards spewy aggro. This is exactly the sort of spot that these players level themselves into. When Mitch flats pre his hand is so under-repped too.

IMO the scenario where he decides that Mitch is FOS pre, and still can be FOS when he peels so cbets 100% and therefore gets to the turn with a range that QQ are crushing is far far more likely than he limped KK+ pre when there are already 2 whales in the pot and only two people left to act behind. Mitch says he doesn't recognise the guy so unless he's been combing Alex's blog and heard about Mitch's spew cannon without having actually seen it, he's just clicking buttons and is FOS with no idea that he's been flatted by such a strong range.

very good post.

meet up for drinks in prague soon daniiel?