Queens pre v big opener.

[outragous76]

The reason we don't flat if he has 77-JJ guy is that he hates a lot of flops and doesn't chunk his money to us as much as if we shove me.

He's opened so big he's rarely folding

Disagree alot

When these people 4x that range they dont want to get it in for 30bbs

We might be the only person at the table he doesnt want to get it in against (dont know as we dont have HH)

Like I say I have no problem wiht jamming but I like a peel in certain spots

Tom asked if we can only Jam, I pointed out 2 reasons why/when I wouldnt

[treefella]

 we jam because we have a monster and hes nearly always calling after his opening raise from this  stack .
 easy shove

[GreekStein]

Its a tiny bit under a 6x, not a 4x

So ye, disagree with u completely given wat u think he has

[outragous76]

Its a tiny bit under a 6x, not a 4x

So ye, disagree with u completely given wat u think he has

his range is?

[EvilPie]

I don't understand why so many people think he won't fold.

He's made it 5.5x pre so we know he's pretty bad. Why is he going to put another 25x in the pot if he thinks he's losing?

His mentality is that he's got a nice hand that he wants to pick up the blinds with. The easiest way to do that is to make a big raise to scare everyone away.

When someone doesn't get scared then that person obviously must have AA or KK so he can happily fold.

It's a big mistake to give too much credit and assume that nobody is going to put 20% of their stack in and fold for the rest. Of course they are.

I don't particularly like flatting because we allow them to play perfectly against us post flop. We need a low flop and hope he has tens or jacks to get his stack. He isn't going to bluff on an A or K high flop and even if he did we'd be hating life more than him.

Make it 5.5k. He will actually think that you're scared that he may have AA because otherwise you'd have put the lot  in. He will actually think that other people can put half their stack in and fold because that's what he'd do.

Prove him wrong.

[GreekStein]

'His mentality is that he's got a nice hand that he wants to pick up the blinds with.'

How on earth do you know this?

[George2Loose]

Some pretty ridic assumptions being made. For me its a jam ainec. If he folds he has let us pick up 6 bigs risk free. If we flat it just gets messy post flop. In my exp this type of opener isn't folding. Ur just ul u ran into a 6bb opener hero folder (copyright g2l)

[EvilPie]

'His mentality is that he's got a nice hand that he wants to pick up the blinds with.'

How on earth do you know this?

Because he raised to 5.5x then folded to a jam showing a pair of jacks.

[SuuPRlim]

i'd say its a 7-1 shot he folds now

how much can I bet?

2 chocolate cakes.

booked!

[Solaris]

Evilpie, how is putting 40% of our stack in with a 3 bet going to look like we're scared he has aces?

[George2Loose]

'His mentality is that he's got a nice hand that he wants to pick up the blinds with.'

How on earth do you know this?

Because he raised to 5.5x then folded to a jam showing a pair of jacks.

Do you just move in against this guy with a wide range then Matt knowing he'll fold?

[EvilPie]

'His mentality is that he's got a nice hand that he wants to pick up the blinds with.'

How on earth do you know this?

Because he raised to 5.5x then folded to a jam showing a pair of jacks.

Do you just move in against this guy with a wide range then Matt knowing he'll fold?

Of course not. For one there's the button and blinds still to act so that would be mental.

The question wasn't about how to get him to fold it was how to get him to put the rest of his stack in.

I just think we've got more chance of getting him to shove if we just 3 bet rather than jam. If we had 15 to 20 bigs then obviously it's a shove but with 30 odd I just prefer a 3 bet.

People are giving this guy too much credit. To him raising to 5.5x is just standard the same as a min or 2.2x would be to you.

Treat it as a normal raise and make a normal 3 bet in the same we would against anyone else with QQ.

[EvilPie]

Evilpie, how is putting 40% of our stack in with a 3 bet going to look like we're scared he has aces?

That's not the bit that might be scary. It's the bit when he 4 bet jams where we are supposed to think he has a monster and fold our AK or AQ.

He doesn't want a flip, that's why he's raised so big. If we make a 3 bet he'll still think we might fold because that's what he'd do.

It's level 1 thinking that's required here. If we jam he thinks we've got a monster so he'll fold anything but KK or AA. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him fold AK.

He doesn't need a flip for his tournament. He can 'live to fight another day'.

[outragous76]

Evilpie, how is putting 40% of our stack in with a 3 bet going to look like we're scared he has aces?

That's not the bit that might be scary. It's the bit when he 4 bet jams where we are supposed to think he has a monster and fold our AK or AQ.

He doesn't want a flip, that's why he's raised so big. If we make a 3 bet he'll still think we might fold because that's what he'd do.

It's level 1 thinking that's required here. If we jam he thinks we've got a monster so he'll fold anything but KK or AA. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him fold AK.

He doesn't need a flip for his tournament. He can 'live to fight another day'.

same reason to flat

any
2 5 9

3 4 6

2 8 T type flop and he open jams his entire range as it "looks safe enough"

[doubleup]

shove

yes not much else.  hopefully he puts you on AK and calls with his jacks.

I did push. He showed jacks and passed.

Is there an argument for just calling here though? I was pretty sure he had a middle pair and was tempted to just flat hoping he will commit on a low flop.

Its been my observation that this kind of overbet pre comes from a bad players with AK or a vulnerable pair.  Against that range I would rather give him the oportunity to make a mistake pre than give myself the opportunity to mess up on the flop.