Stakers & Stakees - Collusion issues in live MTTs

[Girgy85]

Once made the final table of the monthly tourn at blackpool g. my mother also made the final. i knocked her ass out in 9th place even tho i had 50% of her and went on to chop it 3 ways for 1.5k

But could you ever quantify your lost tea time equity and balance that vs chip equity?
Does sng wiz have this feature yet?

Playing fair>>>>>getting smaller tea portions

[George2Loose]

Sorry but the one person I would make an exception for is my mum. I'd even fold aces face up

[Girgy85]

Sorry but the one person I would make an exception for is my mum. I'd even fold aces face up

she's usually got the bulleys and I've usually got the cowboys

[Simon Galloway]

Really really surprised at a lot of this.  Don't get me wrong, I've heard of plenty of scams going down for <£5, so I am sure plenty of people are going to be pulling strokes all over the place any time decent money is involved.

But is it really that hard just to do the right thing?  Play as if you would against anyone else, (i.e. totally on the up) it really isn't giving up much at all, and certainly far less than compromising your own integrity by making a play against a horse that gives you a theo of a few lousy bucks when you know that other players in the tourny have been disadvantaged by your actions.

Make every decision in good faith and all these threads go away.

[SuuPRlim]

no-one has yet to suggest a single good reason why your decision making being influenced by you being vs your horse if all the action is non-collusive is a bad thing and what damage it causes?

[gatso]

no-one has yet to suggest a single good reason why your decision making being influenced by you being vs your horse if all the action is non-collusive is a bad thing and what damage it causes?

you claiming it's not collusion is merely semantics. call it softplay if you like

if I'm in the bb, my horse shoves on me from the small, his stack is a tiny percentage of mine, can you honestly not see that me folding aces is wrong? he doesn't know I'm going to do it so your argument would say it's not collusion but it's clearly a bad thing and it clearly damages the integrity of the tournament

[Simon Galloway]

In gatso's example, I could be in the bb and I might decide to fold AA.  If I did, the only reason I could think of would be that I want to prolong the bubble/ladder jump as lots of mid-stacks are playing passively.  I could do that in 100% good faith that it was for that purpose - the fact that a horse happened to be in the hand would have nothing to do with it.  Don't think anyone would believe me though if I turned my hand over

Now a more likely scenario.  I am in the sb with a bowl on the money bubble.  The button has a decent stack with KK v the BB's AA and large stack.  Unfortunately, they are horse and backer which I am unaware of.  As the sb, I'm robbed of what should be an elimination opportunity.  The rest of the table are denied the increase in equity that this mandatory clash should provide.

It just isn't right.  People have posted that playing for your friends while he takes a leak is wrong, (I agree) but don't think that this is wrong?  I don't get it.

[skolsuper]

Really really surprised at a lot of this.  Don't get me wrong, I've heard of plenty of scams going down for <£5, so I am sure plenty of people are going to be pulling strokes all over the place any time decent money is involved.

But is it really that hard just to do the right thing?  Play as if you would against anyone else, (i.e. totally on the up) it really isn't giving up much at all, and certainly far less than compromising your own integrity by making a play against a horse that gives you a theo of a few lousy bucks when you know that other players in the tourny have been disadvantaged by your actions.

Make every decision in good faith and all these threads go away.

Nobody did anything wrong to prompt this thread

[CHIPPYMAN]

merry xmas mr. key

[SuuPRlim]

no-one has yet to suggest a single good reason why your decision making being influenced by you being vs your horse if all the action is non-collusive is a bad thing and what damage it causes?

you claiming it's not collusion is merely semantics. call it softplay if you like

if I'm in the bb, my horse shoves on me from the small, his stack is a tiny percentage of mine, can you honestly not see that me folding aces is wrong? he doesn't know I'm going to do it so your argument would say it's not collusion but it's clearly a bad thing and it clearly damages the integrity of the tournament

Everyone is taking the extreme examples and they usually go against my argument. In the example you have given with ACES (lets ignore the ethical side of it) this will pretty much always be a losing fold regardless of the stacks to fold, so if you were to fold it would be extremely shady behavior. It would almost certainly fall into the "softplay" penalty's in doobs post...HOEVER....IT IS 100% not collusion because it's one person's individual action. So the horse couldn't be punished. Like I said earlier people should just try and make the most profitable decisions they can, with the info they have inside the written and ethical codes of the game.

The examples I'm making are in closer, more marginal situations (not even calling or folding to shoves prolly half the time) just spots where you set about making a plan for the hand and allow it to be influenced by the fact your horse is in the hand, I think this is fine and no-one has presented a reason why aside from "Everyone should just play the tournament as it should have been played" but surely the tournament "should" be played with everyone trying to maximize there profit at every opportunity?

[Simon Galloway]

Nobody did anything wrong to prompt this thread

I didn't even read OP, so that may well be true.  But I did happen across some of the replies, which I disagree with strongly.

just spots where you set about making a plan for the hand and allow it to be influenced by the fact your horse is in the hand,

Don't allow it

but surely the tournament "should" be played with everyone trying to maximize there profit at every opportunity?

You really wouldn't enjoy playing in a tournament where that was the case.

[MANTIS01]

I think the National Geographic channel is a good resource for learning about tournament poker strategy. So moving on to natural wild leopards now. I saw that the mommy leopard takes incredible care of her cubs and brings them food throughout their development and will even lay her life on the line to protect them from harm. However, when the cubs reach a certain age she drives them away, very sad. This one time the mommy leopard caught an antelope and one of her cubs was still hanging around being unable to fend for itself. It came over to try and get a little bit of food and the mommy leopard was very aggro and would not give her cub a single mouthful. Turns out that mommy leopard is certain that it's much better for her cub to stand on it's own two feet and get it's own food without a helping hand. Leopard expert says the cub has much better chance of life success if he fights to sustain itself rather than being sustained with help from it's mommy. There's plenty of food around for both so can't think of one single reason why mommy would refuse to help the cub she has a big genetic stake in to survive. So we have mommy leopard refusing to intervene and we have those charity guys refusing to intervene and help. Seems being leopard isn't easy and it's on it's own in the jungle and everybody thinks that is the best way. Why is it best way?

Like George I would prob pussy play my mommy. I would also pussy play my girlfriend chiefly because I like sex and the occasional hot meal, but this isn't natural or right. Think Girgy has shown the best leopard instincts in this thread and would prob survive best in the wild. Eye of the tiger that fella. Of course the only reason the bubble is exploitable is because of pussy play. If everybody played to win at all times you couldn't exploit the bubble. Hence pussy play is a weakness in a player. And it makes your horse a weaker player. This is fact of nature.

Also, don't agree that each hand is a separate entity but linked to all previous hands. The way you play this hand is directly linked to the image and chip power you've accumulated during previous hands. Why would somebody tilt in this hand if it had nothing to do with last hand? Dangerous to disrupt the natural chain of events and no proof it does good rather than harm. There's some other stuff I've learnt about honey badgers and poker as well. 

[gatso]

so sick that tighty decided that advent calendars only have 24 doors. def deprived mantis of a spot

[Claw75]

so sick that tighty decided that advent calendars only have 24 doors. def deprived claw of 50p

[TightEnd]

Thanks for shipping the 25p on stars Gatso.