Complex Multi Stage Hand Analysis. 3, Second decision on the turn

[TightEnd]

Recap

  in the SB

 

On the turn I checked, I wanted to get to the end of the hand as cheaply as possible against two unpredictable opponents, one of who may have a flush already one of whom may have a straight, or top pair or the 

I was in a quandary

I wanted to see what happened

UTG bets 1200 into 1500 pot

UTG+1, calls instantly confidently

Pot is now 3900.

Call the 1200 bet, raise or fold?

You have c4500 left
both opponents have 8500+

Over to you

[SupaMonkey]

i don't think you are in front at this point and you're not getting odds to draw to the boat. Assuming you made a boat and both players paid you off you aren't getting the right implied odds so i think you should just fold here. If these players are as bad as you say they are you sohuld be able to find a few spots better than this to take their money.

[ifm]

With better than 3-1 pot odds and implied odds if you hit it's an instant call for me.
You still have 3300 back, not a total disaster.

CALL!!

[SupaMonkey]

Bugger, i'm not doing well on these (and making an idiot of myself in the process) i forgot to add what was already in the pot to the total winnings if they both call when working out the implied odds. Anyways, i think putting 1/4 of your stack on a 1-3.5 shot at this point is only going to make things hard for yourself so i stand by my decision.

[totalise]

Against nutty oppponents as you alluded to in the first post, Id expect all your chips to be in the middle already if they had a flush draw on the flop, so I don't think id be overly scared by the turn, although it wouldn't make me as confident as before!

your options:

fold: I dont think getting 3/1 in this spot is worthy of folding, so I dont think thats gonna be an option

call: the problem I see with calling, is that any card above a 6 that doesnt pair the board, or any spade, is going to be a bit of a scare card,  meaning  you might be folding the best hand on the river if there is some action after you check, but more importantly, if they are loosey goosey, there are just as likely to have 1 pair hand/flush draw on the turn/gut str8 draw/open ended str8 draw, and by not raising the turn, i think you are missing out on too much equity if you dont raise

raise: against these player profiles, I think im likely ahead of their range, and as a result, rather then waiting for the river to hit, and their hand strength is defined, I'd prefer to raise now, and give them a chance to put more money into the pot on a prayer, rather then allowing them to miss and then fold, to overtake and maybe tease us into calling, or even worse, they catch some filthy 2 pair combo, think its the crown jewels, and bet us off our set.

Bearing all that in mind, id jam it on the turn, dont give em a chance to miss. Weak loosey goose players thrive on optimism, they love the "chance" nature of poker, ie "I might get x and make a straight!!!", and you lose out on this by just calling the turn, waiting for the rivr, and then their hope is gone, floating down the river of optimism, before washing ashore ready for another outing.

[ACE2M]

call. I could not fold and i could not raise, i don't see a choice really and would like to know the reasoning of anyone who would fold here.

you could possibly be drawing dead but it is unlikely.

[jezza777]

If these guys are as fishy as you say then you will get paid off by at least one of them on the river if they have a flush now or make one on the river. obviously you need to hit your house here so a call is my play.

[Highstack]

Call here is prefered option. Definitely don't raise.

You are 3/1 + implied and you may fill up and get the rest in. Forget about bigger sets, if you are behind to those you are dead anyway. A raise could mean that you end up all in and a 4th spade on the river is definitely curtains for you. As I said earlier I don't like your position so I am still checking the river if I don't fill up and making my next decision after my opponents river action.

[snoopy1239]

Don't forget that you could be drawing to a weaker full house. It is possible that someone already has a set of eights or tens.

[Highstack]

No one has been calling this down with TT and KK woulod not want 4 pre flop opponents, therefore only 88 imo. If you are against this, well thats just plain unlucky and I am doing my chips versus him if the boat fills up. If it doesn't then being frightened of the flush may slow him down enough to allow me to remain in the comp.

[TightEnd]

I hated my situation but decided against these players I had implied odds galore to hit my boat and scoop. I had to call