6max 200NL - Two pair facing turn c/raise

[SuuPRlim]

couldn't really say I think it's close, not sure it matters, think folding and opening are both pretty fine options

[cambridgealex]

couldn't really say I think it's close, not sure it matters, think folding and opening are both pretty fine options

what about limping to see a cheap flop yo?

[Bully87]

couldn't really say I think it's close, not sure it matters, think folding and opening are both pretty fine options

what about limping to see a cheap flop yo?

Is that a joke? I'm assuming so. Or some kind of level because I said fold pre?

[cambridgealex]

couldn't really say I think it's close, not sure it matters, think folding and opening are both pretty fine options

what about limping to see a cheap flop yo?

Is that a joke? I'm assuming so. Or some kind of level because I said fold pre?

its a joke yeh

[JK]

A2ss - A5ss = open, A6ss - A8ss (I think a9 is here also but fk that) = fold

[chatban]

I had this argument before with a mate. He used to open suited ace. He saw it as important for range balancing. I used to fold A2-7 utg.

Im guessing why you say play a2-5 and not a6-8 but i think its daft. How often are you flopping the 2/3 nut straight realistically.

[JK]

Not opening it purely to flop the nuts. Thats just silly really. We're wanting to flop hands that hold lots of equity, ie s+f draws, more than anything else.

Flopping the nuts is also cool.

[cambridgealex]

I had this argument before with a mate. He used to open suited ace. He saw it as important for range balancing. I used to fold A2-7 utg.

Im guessing why you say play a2-5 and not a6-8 but i think its daft. How often are you flopping the 2/3 nut straight realistically.

You flop a straight with A2-A5 more often than A6-A9

[chatban]

I had this argument before with a mate. He used to open suited ace. He saw it as important for range balancing. I used to fold A2-7 utg.

Im guessing why you say play a2-5 and not a6-8 but i think its daft. How often are you flopping the 2/3 nut straight realistically.

You flop a straight with A2-A5 more often than A6-A9

lol yeah. But doesnt hands like this exemplify the issues with these type of hands.  Tbf at least you managed to flop top 2 not top and bottom.

My point is there is no blanks on the turn oop with a2-5 that dont improve our hand. Equally its impossible to flop the nut straight (thats nit picking) surely a6-9>a2-5 in the majority of spots as our kickers/2purs are less vulnerable.

[cambridgealex]

I had this argument before with a mate. He used to open suited ace. He saw it as important for range balancing. I used to fold A2-7 utg.

Im guessing why you say play a2-5 and not a6-8 but i think its daft. How often are you flopping the 2/3 nut straight realistically.

You flop a straight with A2-A5 more often than A6-A9

lol yeah. But doesnt hands like this exemplify the issues with these type of hands.  Tbf at least you managed to flop top 2 not top and bottom.

My point is there is no blanks on the turn oop with a2-5 that dont improve our hand. Equally its impossible to flop the nut straight (thats nit picking) surely a6-9>a2-5 in the majority of spots as our kickers/2purs are less vulnerable.

It's great to flop trips with A2-A5 cos it's hard for our opponents to put us on 2x, whereas A9 on 99x we have more 9x combos in our range (i open 98ss, T9ss and J9ss sometimes Q9 or 97ss on the right table). The only 2x I'm opening is A2ss.

Secondly, the kicker point isn't really that important imo. I wouldn't really play A2 much differently to A9 on an A high board. Getting one or two streets of value or bluff catching. It's not like we can get 3 streets with A9 on Ak3 but only one or two with A2. Also for the kicker point to be valid, you have to assume that people are peeling A6-A9 in the first place (for us to be outkicked) which people don't really. Even if they do I think the odds of it coming ace high are about 8 or 9:1.

The point about having more vulnerable two pairs is fine, but it's so rare to have two pair over two pair (there's 2 aces left in the 48 cards unknown, 3 of our kicker and 3 of theirs, so for one of each group to come out is v rare)

So is flopping a straight I hear you say, but flopping gutshots is still pretty important, as we can barrel with 16% more equity which is pretty huge. Suited aces generally are pretty sick imo. I might peel or 3b too much from the blinds when I should fold them, but I can't see opening them utg being a mistake.

[Rupert]

Yes open, theres a 15/11 behind and you have a hand that can make a nut flush

[Gazza]

interesting, i wonder who else folds a2-A5ss utg 6max?

It depends hugely on who's in the (big) blinds and to a lesser extent in the other positions.  If there are weaker players in the blinds then obviously you want to play pots with them so A2s might be an open. If there's a LAG on the button who's going to course you a headache and two TAGs in the blinds then it's not a hand you want to play. sthief09 talks about this concept a lot in his videos on Deucescracked.

[Solaris]

My thoughts were I would expect him to c/r 44/55/A5 otf.

Why? You are UTG, if he c/r you and then bets the turn is his range not really narrow and therefore you can easily fold AK/AQ given his stats?

Think turn is a clear fold. Someone playing 15/11 just isn't bluffing often enough in this spot for you to be ahead.

[Honeybadger]

Opening any suited Ace UTG is fine for a player who has a large skill edge in his games. Whether that applies to you yet, given that you've not played much online and are still adjusting, is for you to decide. Either way, there's not going to be much in it. Same with medium suited connectors and some of the dominated offsuit broadways like AJo and KQo.

Postflop this is a slightly strange spot since you'd assume villain would want to c/r the flop with sets (to build the pot) given the fact that your flop bet sizing is pretty small. And of course you'd not expect him to always have the small pairs or A5s (or A9s!!) type hands in his preflop flatting range given that he is a nitty type and you have opened UTG (although in practice very few players fold small pairs to a single raise, even though they probably should).

Nevertheless I think turn is a fold, and not just because you say he turned up with A9. Two reasons for this:

a) The Nit Rule: When a nit shows strength you need to play super tight even with hands that are strong in terms of absolute strength. This is even more the case vs a nit's turn check raise (a la baluga theorem). And even when the nit is only repping a very narrow value range as here... well he just always seems to have one of these unlikely hands :-(

b) You have opened UTG. This is a key point. Given your position, your perceived range is very strong especially when you bet the flop and the turn. Essentially villain is saying he can beat AK. You can only just beat AK yourself. If I had opened on the BTN then I would struggle to fold this hand even given the fact that opponent is a nit, since my range is so much weaker and so villain can be check-raising worse for value and bluffing sometimes.

[Honeybadger]

Im guessing why you say play a2-5 and not a6-8 but i think its daft. How often are you flopping the 2/3 nut straight realistically.

This is missing the point a bit. The reason why A5s is usually more playable than A6s is not because it is going to flop a straight very often. It is because it is going to flop a gutshot. Or pick up a gutshot on the turn. This allows you to stay aggressive on the turn since you are playing your equity, and thus gives you more chance of winning the pot without showdown.