first hand in a long time PLO8 line check

[Ironside]

been at this table for over 30 minutes since the start of the comp not put a single chip in voluntary

2 villians seem to be splashing about in every pot and dont seem too subtle when they hit and they dont seem too bothered if its nut hands or not

how is my line here and and if i face a bet on river how much can i call


PokerStars Game #73406461827: Tournament #492967641, $1.00+$0.10 USD Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level III (20/40) - 2012/01/06 22:10:07 WET [2012/01/06 17:10:07 ET]
Table '492967641 27' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: PerTheBest (8447 in chips)
Seat 2: bindingearl (1845 in chips)
Seat 4: Ironside (2955 in chips)
Seat 5: dan magru (2680 in chips)
Seat 6: Diego Cassi (5480 in chips)
Seat 7: pasmalc (3625 in chips)
Seat 8: deniss45 (3040 in chips)
Seat 9: xolodok21 (3225 in chips)
xolodok21: posts small blind 20
PerTheBest: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
bindingearl: folds
Ironside: raises 40 to 80
dan magru: calls 80
Diego Cassi: calls 80
pasmalc: calls 80
deniss45: calls 80
xolodok21: calls 60
PerTheBest: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [ ]
xolodok21: checks
PerTheBest: checks
Ironside: bets 200
dan magru: folds
Diego Cassi: folds
pasmalc: calls 200
deniss45: folds
xolodok21: folds
PerTheBest: calls 200
*** TURN *** [ ] []
PerTheBest: checks
Ironside: bets 300
pasmalc: calls 300
PerTheBest: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
PerTheBest: checks
Ironside: checks

[Honeybadger]

Fold preflop although it is close. Flop bet sizing good. Give up on turn.

[SuuPRlim]

Stu's the man at PLO8 ^^^

[Honeybadger]

Actually I misread the HH slightly... Flop bet sizing is a little too small, but it is definitely the right idea to be betting on the small side here.

Preflop would be a raise if you were in later position.

[Ironside]

Cheers it was checked behind and I took 3/4 I knew neither had the 8 as they would have bet out on flop, also doubted a3 again these guys would throw big chips at non nut hands so with a nut low they wouldn't ever just call so thinking about it after I thought I might have been missing value by checking river

[NoflopsHomer]

Deffo fold pre and give up on the turn.

[strak33]

Fold pre.

Turn bet is a disaster.

Well done on getting 3/4

[mulhuzz]

hand.

gonna reply without reading other replies first. some pointers:

1. This hand is semi-marginal in PLO8 and at a level where you might get some respect for being tight/against the right villains (i.e. not these two, and not at $1 MTT) you can defo open it this early pos. I tend more towards a fold, there is *some* value in limping in because villains won't realise that your hand should be underrepped when you flop good etc, but if you're going to raise, please come in for 3x. 2x is admirable but it's no good vs table dynamic (2 splashy players plus std $1 MTTers) and the flop (in my experience at least) turns out to be 46 million way each and everytime and you're out of position every time. Don't get me wrong, I'm also 3xing AA23ds etc etc. If Villains are really splashy in the blinds I'll make it 4 or even 5x with the top of my range as well because they won't notice anyway. As a rule for low stakes PL MTTs, unless you have a really good reason for not hitting the pot button (this applies postflop in all levels, preflop pre antes(ish)) just hit the pot button and be happy about it.

2. That said, it's important to note that we often have a pretty hand like this, but preflop we're semi-bluffing with it. Semi-bluffs are fine of course, and so I think opening can be ok as well, just for more. On the flop, our hand is now a different type of semi-bluff but it's on a board that we can probably still cbet profitably and take it down because it's semi-dry and if called we have a bdfd (although we block ourselves as well) and some chance of finding good cards (like J-A, 2, 3) on the turn which will turn into automatic bet/fold or bet/call spots against certain villains. By a different type of semi-bluff, I mean that now, we're almost dead to a get it in range, but likely have semi-decent equity against a continuing range on the flop and then the interesting spot will be on the turn. For that reason, I think your bet, and the size, is fine. Note that the continuing range here against said villain will include KKxx etc a chunk too, especially if they have a low draw. I think that you'll sometimes be raised on the flop by hands like KK43 because people think one pair can be the nuts and it's hard for you to have an 8 a lot. (Btw: if flop is 992 I'm very happy to bet get it in here, because villain should never have a 9!)

3. You now have no hand, try and get to show down and don't bet or call again unless an Ace peels of on the river and then keep pumping the pot button to hope he folds all his non-nut lows. The only hand you beat is something like KK23 or something, which probably won't bet anymore anyway.

Hope that helped!

edit: I thought we had AAK5s, not Kings. Defo a fold pre for me now

[Ironside]

this is an example of why i play hands like akk5 during the early stages of these low level PLO8 games

PokerStars Hand #73693489693: Tournament #496919789, $2.00+$0.20 USD Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/01/11 23:41:54 WET [2012/01/11 18:41:54 ET]
Table '496919789 12' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: gardengirl77 (1390 in chips)
Seat 2: XoTime (1820 in chips)
Seat 3: MARGO1952 (1220 in chips)
Seat 4: nicolita77 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: a szerencsés (5500 in chips)
Seat 6: JUSTTOOSEXY (1830 in chips)
Seat 7: Ironside (1780 in chips)
Seat 8: Otonabee (1470 in chips)
Seat 9: jamesflunker (1480 in chips)
jamesflunker: posts small blind 10
gardengirl77: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ Ah ]
XoTime: folds
MARGO1952: calls 20
nicolita77: folds
a szerencsés has timed out
a szerencsés: folds
a szerencsés is sitting out
JUSTTOOSEXY: calls 20
a szerencsés has returned
Ironside: calls 20
Otonabee: folds
jamesflunker: calls 10
gardengirl77: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
jamesflunker: checks
gardengirl77: checks
MARGO1952: checks
JUSTTOOSEXY: checks
Ironside: checks
*** TURN *** [ ] []
jamesflunker: bets 40
gardengirl77: folds
MARGO1952: calls 40
JUSTTOOSEXY: calls 40
Ironside: calls 40
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
jamesflunker: bets 70
MARGO1952: folds
JUSTTOOSEXY: calls 70
Ironside: raises 70 to 140
jamesflunker: calls 70
JUSTTOOSEXY: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [ Ah ] (HI: a pair of Aces; LO: 8,4,3,2,A)
jamesflunker: mucks hand
Ironside collected 305 from pot
Ironside collected 305 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 610 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: gardengirl77 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: XoTime folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MARGO1952 folded on the River
Seat 4: nicolita77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: a szerencsés folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: JUSTTOOSEXY folded on the River
Seat 7: Ironside showed [ Ah ] and won (610) with HI: a pair of Aces; LO: 8,4,3,2,A
Seat 8: Otonabee (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: jamesflunker (small blind) mucked [ ]


and


PokerStars Hand #73693579806: Tournament #496919789, $2.00+$0.20 USD Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/01/11 23:43:40 WET [2012/01/11 18:43:40 ET]
Table '496919789 12' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: gardengirl77 (1370 in chips)
Seat 2: XoTime (1820 in chips)
Seat 3: MARGO1952 (1160 in chips)
Seat 4: nicolita77 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: a szerencsés (5500 in chips)
Seat 6: JUSTTOOSEXY (1700 in chips)
Seat 7: Ironside (2190 in chips)
Seat 8: Otonabee (1470 in chips)
Seat 9: jamesflunker (1280 in chips)
gardengirl77: posts small blind 10
XoTime: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
MARGO1952: folds
nicolita77: folds
a szerencsés: calls 20
JUSTTOOSEXY: folds
Ironside: calls 20
Otonabee: folds
jamesflunker: calls 20
gardengirl77: calls 10
XoTime: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
gardengirl77: bets 20
XoTime: folds
a szerencsés: raises 60 to 80
Ironside: calls 80
jamesflunker: folds
gardengirl77: calls 60
*** TURN *** [ ] [Ah]
gardengirl77: checks
a szerencsés: bets 180
Ironside: calls 180
gardengirl77: calls 180
*** RIVER *** [ Ah] []
gardengirl77: checks
a szerencsés: checks
Ironside: bets 720
gardengirl77: folds
a szerencsés: calls 720
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [ ] (HI: two pair, Aces and Kings; LO: 6,5,4,3,A)
a szerencsés: mucks hand
Ironside collected 1160 from pot
Ironside collected 1160 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2320 | Rake 0
Board [ Ah ]
Seat 1: gardengirl77 (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 2: XoTime (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: MARGO1952 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: nicolita77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: a szerencsés mucked [ ]
Seat 6: JUSTTOOSEXY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Ironside showed [ ] and won (2320) with HI: two pair, Aces and Kings; LO: 6,5,4,3,A
Seat 8: Otonabee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: jamesflunker (button) folded on the Flop

[EvilPie]

this is an example of why i play hands like akk5 during the early stages of these low level PLO8 games

Is it because you like to chop pots??

[Ironside]

dont chop many pots with akk5

[EvilPie]

dont chop many pots with akk5

You gave 2 examples of why you play akk5 early in these comps.

In both examples you would've chopped.

Just sayin'.

[mulhuzz]

in the first hand i think you miss some value by making some chops fold the river - put in a bigger raise imo. unbelievably, you're good for both high and low somehow, but in the general case you're going to want someone to herofold a chop so raise bigger. call on the turn is prolly bad as well but as I guess you have 2.5 ways to the nut low it might be ok.

second hand, must be nice to run like you. call on the flop is setting money on fire unless you hit exactly an Ace on the turn...oh wait. it's also a really marginal preflop peel in MP.

when you hit the Ace on the turn it's absolutely mandatory to raise as well, the call is missing a lot of value.