Too early to get busy?

[Radagast]

Playing in a live tourney, effectively 45 players 20 quid each, 16k chips.  25 min blinds.

In level 5, blinds are 300/600.  2 hours in.  I havent won a hand and am down to 7500 in chips.  30 players left, average is 24k.

BB starts hand with 8000 in chips.

I call 600 with  

Button calls 600

Sb completes 600

BB raises to 2600

I now have 6900 left and only called for this exact reason, that I could fold to a big raise and still be alive.

I call to 2600

Button folds

Sb folds
------------

2 players to flop Pot 6400



BB checks

I check

 

BB bets 2600

?

[BulldozerD]

Eh? You want to limp/fold tens with 12 big blinds?!

Then you call for nearly half your stack with no plan

Just raise/call and get those chips in preflop

[chatban]

My advice would be to completely look at how you are playing the game.

We should never open limp our hands. This is a super strong holding and with our stack being so small we need to be going all in here . The fact you find yourself oop with four players andthere is an over is no surprize. You need to play this hand totally different. When he raises pre You have no choice but t shove and you should be very happy.

As played this is an easy jam but seriously being so weak tight is a sure sign you need to improve. Try looking through the hands here and looking at some of the discusiions and see if your initial reaction would be to do the same.

[Radagast]

I agree.  I played this bad.  Is it then an automatic shove pre flop or fold pre flop?

I would usually have raised here earlier in the tourney.

This is a major weakness in my game.  This exact spot in tourneys.  I regularly go deep in these tourneys then go out either low paid places, out of the money or second last table.

It is always in a hand like this where I have made a pre flop error.

I have read loads of these analysis before.

I still found myself just calling here even though I know I should be raising or folding.

[chatban]

I agree.  I played this bad.  Is it then an automatic shove pre flop or fold pre flop?

Its a shove pre flop

[Ironside]

i would be open shoving this hand 100% of time

[Radagast]

Cheers guys. 

[Radagast]

Out of curiosity, when can I bet/fold here?  Ever?  How many chips do I need relative to the pot/other players etc?

[chatban]

With 12bbs from early position with 12bb im shoving 77+, KQs+,A8s+
never bet fold with less than  15bbs. To be honest you need to consider so much such as position stack size blinds table dynamics etc try not to look at thungs in iscolation.

[mulhuzz]

With 12bbs from early position with 12bb im shoving 77+, KQs+,A8s+
never bet fold with less than  15bbs. To be honest you need to consider so much such as position stack size blinds table dynamics etc try not to look at thungs in iscolation.

there's an argument for bet/folding less if the average stack is quite small, but this is never, ever, a fold and always a jam.

[chatban]

With 12bbs from early position with 12bb im shoving 77+, KQs+,A8s+
never bet fold with less than  15bbs. To be honest you need to consider so much such as position stack size blinds table dynamics etc try not to look at thungs in iscolation.

there's an argument for bet/folding less if the average stack is quite small, but this is never, ever, a fold and always a jam.

Walk before you can run :-P

[SuuPRlim]

Hi Mate,

Few things about spots like this. there are two ways to make money with a stack of your size (12 big blinds) and those are 1) by people folding (when you jam and everyone folds you win 900 chips) and 2) by jamming hands that are likely to be ahead when called. You combine the two together when deciding what hands to shove, look at the players to act behind, how likely they are call/fold (you'll no doubt have some sort of knowledge about how people play even after a short time) and in essence the more you expect people to fold, the more hands you can shove (this is called fold equity - where the equity of your hand when you get called is "increased" because of the times e win the blinds uncontested) Note that in this tournament there ISNT a running ante, so we should be shoving tighter for this reason because we win less chips when everyone folds, but also our stack is under less pressure because we only have to put chips in un-voluntarily 2/9 hands.

The reason we really don't want to limp with a stack of this size is that its now impossible for us to make money from people's folds and we're allowing hands that would fold and let us increase our chips by 900 (13/14%) with small equity against our us to see a flop for free, we're basically giving them a freeroll to realise there equity and stack us. Plus, with such a shallow stack we have no room to make any plays or do anything really after the flop so we're going to basically have to decide we're committed and go with the hand, if we're going to be in this position after the flop then we may as well be going all in pre-flop and making J4 and stuff fold in the big blind.

Now, as for your SPECIFIC hand here TT is a clear clear shove, you can easily be called all in by a hand you crush AT/99 etc and you'll win the 900 dead a lot, hands like 44, KTo, QJo are where it gets to be more of a decision, if there were antes these would all be quite simple shoves. Here though, get the money in, you got a very good hand

[sm00035]

Just remember it's never too early to get busy!!!

[Dubai]

Haha hero

[cambridgealex]

Hi Mate,

Few things about spots like this. there are two ways to make money with a stack of your size (12 big blinds) and those are 1) by people folding (when you jam and everyone folds you win 900 chips) and 2) by jamming hands that are likely to be ahead when called. You combine the two together when deciding what hands to shove, look at the players to act behind, how likely they are call/fold (you'll no doubt have some sort of knowledge about how people play even after a short time) and in essence the more you expect people to fold, the more hands you can shove (this is called fold equity - where the equity of your hand when you get called is "increased" because of the times e win the blinds uncontested) Note that in this tournament there ISNT a running ante, so we should be shoving tighter for this reason because we win less chips when everyone folds, but also our stack is under less pressure because we only have to put chips in un-voluntarily 2/9 hands.

The reason we really don't want to limp with a stack of this size is that its now impossible for us to make money from people's folds and we're allowing hands that would fold and let us increase our chips by 900 (13/14%) with small equity against our us to see a flop for free, we're basically giving them a freeroll to realise there equity and stack us. Plus, with such a shallow stack we have no room to make any plays or do anything really after the flop so we're going to basically have to decide we're committed and go with the hand, if we're going to be in this position after the flop then we may as well be going all in pre-flop and making J4 and stuff fold in the big blind.

Now, as for your SPECIFIC hand here TT is a clear clear shove, you can easily be called all in by a hand you crush AT/99 etc and you'll win the 900 dead a lot, hands like 44, KTo, QJo are where it gets to be more of a decision, if there were antes these would all be quite simple shoves. Here though, get the money in, you got a very good hand

Just remember it's never too early to get busy!!!

Two of Cody's entourage's finest itt.