An Ape and a notebook, how long will it take?

[smashedagain]

Police read his last post and kidnapped him. It don't just Happen in Colombia

[jgcblack]

We haven't been taken, just busy and somehow... not posting.

so cliffs on mega busy week or so.

1. CP came and stayed, was fun to sweat him playing 2-600nl and having his thought process on hands often made a lot of sense
- e.g. "this guy is a reg, why would he raise a flush on an A turn when he knows I'll barrell an A turn and brick river all the time..."
so he bet/calls turn and cc river with JJ.... beats random pair turned into bluff from villain.

2. been preparing for a job promotion online tests and interview.
went well despite my office being pretty poor at communication and the organisation of it, i think i did a 'decent' job of presenting myself.  And after getting my ass kicked in the online test practice I think i did 'ok' in the three tests overall, but I definitely got my ass handed to me in the number reasoning, didn't do the last 3 questions and got stuck on one so long, to only realise the wording of the question meant you couldnt calculate the 'answer' and therefore had to click 'unable to answer' in this case.  thats 4 minutes wasted out of 15! FMLFMFMFMFMFMFL

3. been grinding my little socks off and am now at 25nl again and staying so far.
Went right down to $200 with variance but bounced back and made my way up through 500 and over 6 bills.  Had 4 big winning sessions in a row, and then last few days had some small losing ones, running a little bad but tbh just making a couple of mistakes/ sesson and that being the difference.  Had some rough hands tho... check these two out.

http://wt.ag/SxBJe7

http://wt.ag/SxBVdo

4. Abroad again and i have internet in the room and a less busy than usual trip so I'm hoping to get a lot of hands in and some gym time... loving the salmon and veg as usual.  Main problem for me and food is the quantities.
I've had a sleep this evening to allow for a decent grind even though I have work in the morning, gl us!

See you on the other side.

[jgcblack]

Eugh....

well that was long, long, long and rough.

there were some proper genius moments and some possibly horrible spew too.  Which is a shame.. I'll find some highlight hands..

Cliffs
finished 2bi down..
- lost KK vs AA on 9xx
- lost QQ vs AA aipf
- won biggest ever pot - with a bluff shove on the river, expecting overpairs to fold on    (we had innit!)
- tarped a reg with a cbet, cc and csnap with   on 75xxK...
- made a few nice reads and craises turning hands into bluffs... one ended badly when the guy rivered two pair.
- had some big swings br wise but finished at the bottom of my 25nl roll.... so we need to win tomorrow..
- noticed some BIG differences in my levels of game, for those that have read JT's MGP you'll know the unconscious competence is something you only see under stress and today I noticed some things i now do 'automatically' that only 20k hands ago i would've made a mistake.  This is really reassuring and positive, even if i still make mistakes/ lose pots sometimes.
- stopped close to 'on plan' and got some redbulls for work tomorrow... worst case senario is im a little tired and have to sleep after work before going out for the evening... think we're going to the cinema to watch batman (I've seen it but its worth another go fo'sho)

LOSSES
http://wt.ag/MD6j84
we turn our hand into bluff vs this villain because he should have very few hands for value in this spot.. he will be snapfolding <QQ and I'm very confident he folds AA/KK a high % vs me here..  he took a while to call, showing his consideration of the hand as it was.  I don't expect him to fold this because he beats a chunk of my value hands.. but I'm also not 100% in love with this...

http://wt.ag/MD6tMX
sucks... sigh... he also took a while before calling, but obv we're not trying to make him fold a Q.

http://wt.ag/MD6yjH
cold turn, colder river = run better pls
(assume its ok pre?)

http://wt.ag/MD6G2o
sigh @ flipz... mbn #wpsir

http://wt.ag/MD6xfB
vs spazzy shortstacker... meh.

http://wt.ag/MD6AYB
meh..

WINS

http://wt.ag/MD6Ua1
I went for it didn't i? the plan for the hand was to put pressure on this guys stack, we've only ever played big pots when I've had it.  So I don't expect him to ever think I'm ool here... It just doesn't happen for this many bb's at these stakes.  The reason for that being a lot of people don't fold, however this guy can and he's been punished vs me for his lack of folding and aggro response to me so he's more careful now.
So he got all 3 barrells and ul on the mouse tekkers, click call next time.

http://wt.ag/MD7410
Cooler 1, this is how you win apparently... ul him, he tank called as well... I really didn't like my options as i look sick strong.. but a lot of scary turns and people don't like folding strong hands.. so I figured GO ALL IN AND HOPE HE CAN CALL!!!
#suchafish

http://wt.ag/MD71SU
more coolers, really nice spot as well cos the CO would have 4b'd me as he had done the previous 3 times i'd btn 3bt him.  Sick flop tho..

http://wt.ag/MD75Cd
WOW! this never happens, I asked myself when he shoved... "is this ever AA/ KK?" then said that I 3bt a value hand.. I'm not folding now.

http://wt.ag/MD7dSa
ABSOlutely hate this, at the time i was just like "in your eye you cold calling ****". then got there and did a happy dance.  Morale was restored #happinesEVinnitAlex
(i realise this is huge spew)

http://wt.ag/MD7kx7
pride of the session, really proud of this. #wpsir

http://wt.ag/MD7jct
squeezed a few extra bb's out of him, like this a lot.

http://wt.ag/MD7pRf
thought about the river shove, wouldve been a really nice spot for it it turns out... not sure i love turn call.

http://wt.ag/MD7tAv
so LOL @ peoples sizings... #thanksforthefreerollz


So there is some good, great and a chunk of not great or borderline spewy... mentality was solid throughout except for the Ax hand above.

Shame we couldn't get a big nights worth out of it, but in the end we finished two bi's down and apparently ran good for that, so thanks for the help this time variance..

#stillearningsimples
#willgetthere


night all...




One more thing... I actually started with 8 tables because its a friday and i try to play tighter and let the money rolls in, but after a while I wasn't playing my best so i took two tables off and refocussed and not only am i proud of the maturity of this but also noticed my play being better overall on the tables from this point on..
Glad this ship is still moving, shame its not got a sail yet.

[cambridgealex]

OK decided to spend half an hour going through these and seeing if I can help out in anyway. Mainly because you're a fun guy to help and lovethegame a lot, also because the shop next door is playing loud music at 8am and I can't sleep.

Will give each hand a "JB Spew/9th level genius factor" or "JB factor" for short.

http://weaktight.com/4926729

Fold turn, I guess you're thinking they're some good rivers to bluff, but a) the offsuit 3 isn't one of them, and b) his range is uncapped, so those "good" rivers, might just be the ones that give him straights/two pairs etc. Prefer the turn call if you're deeper and it's a 3bet pot so his range is more AA/KK. Still don't like it oop, what you gonna do, donk bet/shove? He's gonna check back his AA/KK if it comes a 7 or T or Q whatever you plan on bluffing on. So fold turn, fold river. Still doubt they fold AA here ever. JB factor: 6

http://wt.ag/MD6tMX

Hate this, don't like the peel pre from the sb, 3bet or fold imo. Flop c/r is ok, but the turn is an awful barrel card and is a standard c/fold. You then compound on this by shoving the brickest of bricks river? Don't like it. JB factor: 8

http://wt.ag/MD6yjH

yeh pre is fine imo, ul JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD6G2o

wp obv, ul JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD6xfB

Not sure what you're doing here. You just getting in 65bb pre with 99 vs this guy? Without a decent reason to do otherwise, vs his stack, I'm just peeling here pre, even oop, our hand is too good to fold and too bad to get in vs a standard guys range here. As played fine obv. JB factor: 4

http://wt.ag/MD6AYB

wp, ul JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD6Ua1

Like the squeeze, hate the sizing. I 3bet to 10 or 11bbs vs a single 3x raiser if i'm oop. Here you make it 11bbs after a 3x and 2 callers! I'd be going 16 or 17x here. You realise you had the best hand probably at all times postflop?! The guy didn't fold QQ or anything?! Seems like button clicking jamming the river, sick range merge perhaps?! Did you think you'd get him off 99 or JJ? Surely only two better hands he MIGHT fold? Or did you think he'd call with 66 etc? JB factor: 5

http://wt.ag/MD71SU

wal, JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD75Cd

nh, though if this "never" happens, I assume it "never" happens with like JJ either? If you're only expecting them to show up with QQ+ AK, then probably not a good spot to be getting it in pre. If we're 4betting it's because we're expecting either a) he'll fold thus giving up his equity share in the pot, b) he'll peel, good for us for obvious reasons c) he'll jam AQ and other stuff we have good equity against like TT/JJ/QQ and some bluffs. So these reasons make up for the times he has AA and KK and we go broke.

However IF he's only getting it in with QQ+ then getting it in with AK has to be bad. Hand would be totally fine if you didn't observe that this never happens lol, implying you were shocked that you weren't crushed/flipping! JB factor: 1 (tough one cos the hand is wp, but maybe for wrong reasons?! Not sure.

http://wt.ag/MD7dSa

Oh dear. Oh dear. Glad you realised how bad this was! JB factor: 9

http://wt.ag/MD7kx7

vnh, good call, well played. Do you call if he bets 1/3 or 1/2 pot on the river? Can still be vbetting 88, A7 etc? Obv when he almost pots the river it's never those hands. NICE HAND JOHN! JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD7jct

pre and flop wp, don't think I like the turn check, but it's ok since he's probably folding a lot of stuff on this turn, but you miss out on a bunch of value from stuff he's getting stubborn with (depends on players stationing tendancies) and from draws (of which there are a ton). Maybe you think he'll barrell this card? Think this one is player dependant. River hmmm interesting. You knew he'd bet Tx or 88/99 etc? Again, player dependant, sucks if he's the type to just check back turn and river with AT but would've called, but fine if he likes to go for thin value or barrels off on good cards etc. JB factor: unknown.

 http://wt.ag/MD7pRf

hmm, no. fold flop, fold turn. just call river as played. JB factor: 5

http://wt.ag/MD7tAv

lol, wtf, nice life. JB factor: 0

Average JB factor per hand: 2.9

Much improved! 

[jgcblack]

OK decided to spend half an hour going through these and seeing if I can help out in anyway. Mainly because you're a fun guy to help and lovethegame a lot, also because the shop next door is playing loud music at 8am and I can't sleep.

Will give each hand a "JB Spew/9th level genius factor" or "JB factor" for short.

http://weaktight.com/4926729

Fold turn, I guess you're thinking they're some good rivers to bluff, but a) the offsuit 3 isn't one of them, and b) his range is uncapped, so those "good" rivers, might just be the ones that give him straights/two pairs etc. Prefer the turn call if you're deeper and it's a 3bet pot so his range is more AA/KK. Still don't like it oop, what you gonna do, donk bet/shove? He's gonna check back his AA/KK if it comes a 7 or T or Q whatever you plan on bluffing on. So fold turn, fold river. Still doubt they fold AA here ever. JB factor: 6

Sounds silly but I actually think he has one pair hands a lot here.. obv there is the three combos of a value hand I think he may bet/call here - these being 88, 99 and JJ exclusively.  This guy seems to be a good reg, he's never calling AA if i cshove this river and I've seen him vbet thinner than others.  He may vbet as weak as AJ vs me. (maybe)

I agree floating the old OOP isn't great and i only do it nowadays in spots where I either have some equity or a good read on the guys game.. (only 10 or so people I might do this vs)

http://wt.ag/MD6tMX

Hate this, don't like the peel pre from the sb, 3bet or fold imo. Flop c/r is ok, but the turn is an awful barrel card and is a standard c/fold. You then compound on this by shoving the brickest of bricks river? Don't like it. JB factor: 8

I think you're right about this a lot, my thinking at the time was that he seemed pretty weak and that he would peel any pair on flop, it might take the bullets to get a fold.  The turn then makes it unlikely he has a Q and I know we need both turn and river to make him fold a J.. I've seen a bunch of people in the last 10k hands where they call this turn with any J and some pairs, but ALWAYS fold to river bombs.. I know this because I've checked the rivers down a bunch in similar spots and they've snap checked back, but when ive bombed they snap folded.. obv i could be self levelling but I'm pretty certain im right about ranges in these spots at these limits.

http://wt.ag/MD6yjH

yeh pre is fine imo, ul JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD6G2o

wp obv, ul JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD6xfB

Not sure what you're doing here. You just getting in 65bb pre with 99 vs this guy? Without a decent reason to do otherwise, vs his stack, I'm just peeling here pre, even oop, our hand is too good to fold and too bad to get in vs a standard guys range here. As played fine obv. JB factor: 4

When people are this shallow I don't see them folding KJ+ A10+ pre, they shove all pairs and ive actually seen them tiny 4bt AA/KK and QQ, so when he flats here I CRUSH his range... esp on this flop.  They level themselves into thinking I have Ahigh and that's where his raise comes in, I shove and he's now committed, I was super suprised to see a big pair here.
Note made. - However, what would we be doing on this runout if we just flatted pre?

http://wt.ag/MD6AYB

wp, ul JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD6Ua1

Like the squeeze, hate the sizing. I 3bet to 10 or 11bbs vs a single 3x raiser if i'm oop. Here you make it 11bbs after a 3x and 2 callers! I'd be going 16 or 17x here. You realise you had the best hand probably at all times postflop?! The guy didn't fold QQ or anything?! Seems like button clicking jamming the river, sick range merge perhaps?! Did you think you'd get him off 99 or JJ? Surely only two better hands he MIGHT fold? Or did you think he'd call with 66 etc? JB factor: 5

We absolutely don't have the best hand all the time here postflop.. obv he has AK/ AQ type hands some %.. would be a sick river if we make a two pair that he calls off vs.
However I definitely think he folds <JJ here and most of the time QQ.... maybe even folds 1 combo of KK here.  But our plan is not to make people fold KK on 8xxxx.

Think you're right about sizing, I definitely need to look into this.  It's just I've found that people fold so much to squeezes I make my range strong the majority of the time and then let them make their mistake of underestimating their 'equity' and how 'cheap' it is to see a flop.

Anyone have a list of some decent standard-ish sizings for preflop strategy @ online cash games.. inc limpers or additional callers?

http://wt.ag/MD71SU

wal, JB factor: 0

http://wt.ag/MD75Cd

nh, though if this "never" happens, I assume it "never" happens with like JJ either? If you're only expecting them to show up with QQ+ AK, then probably not a good spot to be getting it in pre. If we're 4betting it's because we're expecting either a) he'll fold thus giving up his equity share in the pot, b) he'll peel, good for us for obvious reasons c) he'll jam AQ and other stuff we have good equity against like TT/JJ/QQ and some bluffs. So these reasons make up for the times he has AA and KK and we go broke.

However IF he's only getting it in with QQ+ then getting it in with AK has to be bad. Hand would be totally fine if you didn't observe that this never happens lol, implying you were shocked that you weren't crushed/flipping! JB factor: 1 (tough one cos the hand is wp, but maybe for wrong reasons?! Not sure.

No, I think I've mis-explained my suprise.  I'm almost NEVER crushed here... I've seen one person shove this big pre with KK, the rest of the hands I've seen have almost always involved a tiny 4/5bt pre..  obv i would be folding to that.  When he shoves here I actually expect to see 77-JJ all the time, sometimes QQ, and rarely AQ.  I'm one of the few players at this level being aggro with AQ pre, which is something I'll be looking into shortly.

http://wt.ag/MD7dSa

Oh dear. Oh dear. Glad you realised how bad this was! JB factor: 9

Yeah, hate this, just ckb turn and win... sigh.

http://wt.ag/MD7kx7

vnh, good call, well played. Do you call if he bets 1/3 or 1/2 pot on the river? Can still be vbetting 88, A7 etc? Obv when he almost pots the river it's never those hands. NICE HAND JOHN! JB factor: 0

I basically snap any river bet in this spot vs this guy, he checks back almost everything BECAUSE I can have a K here.  He doesn't expect me to fold AK ott, possibly even if i brick the river.  There have however been some times where I've played a hand like this and they just 'have' K10 or KJ... which would've sucked.
#rightthistimethoinnit

http://wt.ag/MD7jct

pre and flop wp, don't think I like the turn check, but it's ok since he's probably folding a lot of stuff on this turn, but you miss out on a bunch of value from stuff he's getting stubborn with (depends on players stationing tendancies) and from draws (of which there are a ton). Maybe you think he'll barrell this card? Think this one is player dependant. River hmmm interesting. You knew he'd bet Tx or 88/99 etc? Again, player dependant, sucks if he's the type to just check back turn and river with AT but would've called, but fine if he likes to go for thin value or barrels off on good cards etc. JB factor: unknown.

I like this, most people (in my spot) have just check raised 10x/ <99 and then 'given' up on a K turn figuring it hits the other player.  He checks back AK ott to avoid a double cr... but then vbet/calls river ALWAYS with a K, was a bonus he had worse.
#thinvalue+bighands=50nlsoon

http://wt.ag/MD7pRf

hmm, no. fold flop, fold turn. just call river as played. JB factor: 5

This guy is pretty aggro and pre and flop is standard.. I beat a lot of his opening range (includes KJ, KQ, sc's etc - I've seen this from him) with equity vs his value range (10xss, A10, JJ, AK).
On this turn I'm never folding.. and River I think is a mistake as I now crush EVERYTHING except AA, KK.  He has hands we now 'beat' and he has Qx hands that will call and lose.  I've lost some pots to him being a little ool, so i think he might even call river with JJ type hands.
Think this is pretty low JB factor, would've been Lv9 genius with a river shove.. maybe RO but unsure.  #wouldaworkedtho

http://wt.ag/MD7tAv

lol, wtf, nice life. JB factor: 0

Average JB factor per hand: 2.9

Much improved! 

as usual, thank a lot mate.

Much appreciated, comments above.


Thanks again for the time and comments...
Average JBf is clearly dropping and is consistent with my stronger play and less spew in general.  Happy we're moving in the right direction, just a shame its such a slow long process.  However, hopefully that's a good thing long term.

Patience is something I need to learn in life.. and its slowly seeping through into my personality, life, behaviour and poker.

gd times ahead I hope.

[jgcblack]

Well that didn't last long.... had a monster of a session just now.

I'm going to get flamed a lot for the following, sigh.

This is the main reason for a big losing session, we have a lot of hands vs this guy... we even go down to two tables because focussing on him was more important.

http://wt.ag/QO7TAy
This was the first hand, after I saw this I immediately decided i needed to watch him and to focus on his tells because they were quickly noticed to be super obvious.

We then have these against him, he ends up running 90/40/20 over 170 hands.

http://wt.ag/QO85zK
this is unfortunate, esp after waiting so long for a hand vs him

http://wt.ag/QO8ceP
horrible runout obviously, but this guy isn't folding ANY 7 or overpair and sometimes no other single pair....
However in retrospect he only 'raises' nutty hands otr, i coulda looked to bet smaller/ fold.

http://wt.ag/QO8odV
this is just plain rude! wtf.... seriously?

http://wt.ag/QO8S3O
Apparently he doesn't like getting 3bt, looks like a shoddy runout tho... sighhhhh

http://wt.ag/QO8x0T
not ideal, this was second time this guy blew at me...



there was more but this is the crux of it.

Back to 10nl then.... shame.  There's more bluffing and so on at these stakes.



ALSO if I'm honest, I don't hink I was 100% concentrating.. so maybe this had an effect.

[DMorgan]

Never read this thread before but heard lots about it so I'll give some of these a go

http://wt.ag/QO7TAy
Why are you trying to bluff a guy that wants to play 90% of hands pre? Pre is fine, flop is fine as long as you remember that you're value betting against this guy. I like your turn sizing, keeps his K high floats in there, gets value from draws etc. but I don't see any reason to bomb this river. Villain as described isn't folding better hands and its very plausible that a 90/40 plays his diamond hands passively. If you think that he floats the turn wide enough for you to be able to value bet A8 then you get to just c/call river.


http://wt.ag/QO85zK
Reasoning for this turn betsize? Another case of a big bet that folds out everything that you beat and is never folding out better. Just check. River shove is pretty big spew too, he has plenty of Jx in his range and actually with your huge sizing on the turn you've made it very obvious even to a fish that you're jamming river so turned flushes are going to flat a lot of the time.

http://wt.ag/QO8ceP
Fold pre obv. Massive FPS to be flatting hands like 67o out of the blinds here. Big reverse implied odds and you just aren't going to win the pot often enough OOP to be able to justify calling here. As played again its an unnecessary river jam. I think you need to take the time to actually think about what you're trying to achieve with your bets. Here we're trying to get value from worse two pairs and one pair hands and again, no better hand is folding. He's not calling a jam with much worse on this runout, I think you should be bet/folding $8

http://wt.ag/QO8odV
Flop betsize is good, you definitely need to be doing more of this against EVERYONE that isn't a reg. Bet big with your value hands. Yes its exploitable but people suck at 25NL and nobody is going to start hero folding to your bigger sizings. You might think that they will but trust me, they won't. Turn betsize is good, probably a dollar or so much just so that your river jam isn't >pot but not a big deal. Again its an unnecessary river jam. The only Kx that is calling is KT, most of the draws got there and he can easily have kings up too. Again, what are you trying to achieve with your bet? You want worse to call, so just bet smaller and he doesn't have any air in his range on this river so you're not going to get jammed on as a bluff pretty much ever at 25NL.

[jgcblack]

Never read this thread before but heard lots about it so I'll give some of these a go

http://wt.ag/QO7TAy
Why are you trying to bluff a guy that wants to play 90% of hands pre? Pre is fine, flop is fine as long as you remember that you're value betting against this guy. I like your turn sizing, keeps his K high floats in there, gets value from draws etc. but I don't see any reason to bomb this river. Villain as described isn't folding better hands and its very plausible that a 90/40 plays his diamond hands passively. If you think that he floats the turn wide enough for you to be able to value bet A8 then you get to just c/call river.

This was one of his first hands at the table, didn't know how big a fish he was at this point, but as you see he still 'heroed' me more than most if not any other player I've seen @ 25nl.

-ve = I tried to bluff a guy i didn't have a good hand sample on
+ve = I realised instantly who i was dealing with and adjusted after this one hand.. ego hit or not.


http://wt.ag/QO85zK
Reasoning for this turn betsize? Another case of a big bet that folds out everything that you beat and is never folding out better. Just check. River shove is pretty big spew too, he has plenty of Jx in his range and actually with your huge sizing on the turn you've made it very obvious even to a fish that you're jamming river so turned flushes are going to flat a lot of the time.

As I said below, I've seen this guy call down with second pair for three streets on a messy board, so in this case he WILL be calling with ANY one pair hand, obv we beat a lot of those, and I was intending to snapfold to any raise.

-ve = after more hands I would've realised I could have bet slightly smaller in these situations and just folded to any raises, we need to cut him 1000 times, not chop his head off.
+ve = I went bet bet shove with AA vs a fish #runbetterpls

http://wt.ag/QO8ceP
Fold pre obv. Massive FPS to be flatting hands like 67o out of the blinds here. Big reverse implied odds and you just aren't going to win the pot often enough OOP to be able to justify calling here. As played again its an unnecessary river jam. I think you need to take the time to actually think about what you're trying to achieve with your bets. Here we're trying to get value from worse two pairs and one pair hands and again, no better hand is folding. He's not calling a jam with much worse on this runout, I think you should be bet/folding $8

My logic for this is that I wanted to play ANY hand that was 'playable' against this guy because position mattered less vs him but made it hard vs the others at the table, which included some regs.  I'm pretty sure NONE of them adjusted either as much or as quickly as I did.  Sucks I couldn't get the lot, but I felt like there was a timer over this fish's head and the money wasn't going to be there for long.

Obv we flopped top two pair and he can have a million different combos of hands we beat, I'm always going cr, bet,bet,shove... however this river is a particularly bad one...  Like I said below, I was 'blinded' by the gold and probably should have bet/folded like you said.

-ve = a bad river kinda, need to remind myself that I AM THE ONLY one adjusting to this fish... a reg with position actually left the table while the fish still have 500bb's he's obviously horrible.
+ve = we noticed his playing 'style' and literally it was the most open book thing I have ever seen, I don't want to put it online but anyone interested I'll explain.

http://wt.ag/QO8odV
Flop betsize is good, you definitely need to be doing more of this against EVERYONE that isn't a reg. Bet big with your value hands. Yes its exploitable but people suck at 25NL and nobody is going to start hero folding to your bigger sizings. You might think that they will but trust me, they won't. Turn betsize is good, probably a dollar or so much just so that your river jam isn't >pot but not a big deal. Again its an unnecessary river jam. The only Kx that is calling is KT, most of the draws got there and he can easily have kings up too. Again, what are you trying to achieve with your bet? You want worse to call, so just bet smaller and he doesn't have any air in his range on this river so you're not going to get jammed on as a bluff pretty much ever at 25NL.

I am trying to trust you more experienced guys with your advice, but as some of you know yourselfs and some of you see through me... its hard to trust it sometimes when it 'looks' like they are adjusting...

As said previously I think he calls this river with ANY single pair hand, and this obviously looks like a good 'bluffing' card.  I actually think that the only hands we're now beat by are KJ, KQ, 66 and club draws.. in which case there are a LOT more one pair hands... and like you say, even some K9/K10 type hands that now 'got there'.  I actually think this is just an 'ul john' type hand.  Sick really.

-ve = we lost a lot of money vs a fish AGAIN, this time with two purrs
+ve = stayed focussed and just shrugged it off, despite being VERY ANGRY...

Hey Dan, thanks for the time fella.  I've heard a lot about you too and read a bunch of your posts.  You're definintely in the lil'dave camp of contributors on this site, by this i mean I think you and the 'group' of you are key to why this site is so good.
(i'll let dave enjoy this for a few secs)

I've gone through your comments and tried to explain some of my reasoning above.  One thing i will admit, which is tough... is that I didn't realise how bad the runouts were vs this guy as I'd watched him played a lot and once i had tp or better I just bet enough to shove the river.  I'd seen him call down on some amazing boards.. with second pair a LOT... so I was treating any tpgk hand as the nuts.

[DMorgan]

From reading your comments it really sounds like you're just trying too hard to adjust to people. Your mindset going in shouldn't be 'I'm going to find out how this guy plays and make adjustments to exploit everything he does' imo at this level. You should just be playing a standard TAG game almost always, and adjusting away from this once you have good information to suggest that you should do so.

A TAG strategy at these levels is good because it wins money vs the population tendencies of 10NL/25NL players. You're trying way too hard to adjust to everyone differently and you just end up getting yourself in a big tangle over what to do.

I appreciate that you want to exploit everyone as much as possible, but I think you're forgetting that a TAG strategy at these level is standard because it exploits the population tendencies of 10NL/25NL players. It looks to me like you're really determined to do better than TAG.

I think you just have to appreciate that your hand reading and bet sizing just aren't at the level for you to be able to play a more LAG style at this point. I know its not cool and it doesn't make for great hand history reviews but I honestly can't stress enough how much healthier your winrate would get if you cut out all of this stuff that in your mind is super-exploitative stuff, but in practice is just turning into spew.

Sorry if that came off as a bit harsh, but it really is true that tight is right at these levels.

[tikay]

From reading your comments it really sounds like you're just trying too hard to adjust to people. Your mindset going in shouldn't be 'I'm going to find out how this guy plays and make adjustments to exploit everything he does' imo at this level. You should just be playing a standard TAG game almost always, and adjusting away from this once you have good information to suggest that you should do so.

A TAG strategy at these levels is good because it wins money vs the population tendencies of 10NL/25NL players. You're trying way too hard to adjust to everyone differently and you just end up getting yourself in a big tangle over what to do.

I appreciate that you want to exploit everyone as much as possible, but I think you're forgetting that a TAG strategy at these level is standard because it exploits the population tendencies of 10NL/25NL players. It looks to me like you're really determined to do better than TAG.

I think you just have to appreciate that your hand reading and bet sizing just aren't at the level for you to be able to play a more LAG style at this point. I know its not cool and it doesn't make for great hand history reviews but I honestly can't stress enough how much healthier your winrate would get if you cut out all of this stuff that in your mind is super-exploitative stuff, but in practice is just turning into spew.

Sorry if that came off as a bit harsh, but it really is true that tight is right at these levels.

Perfectly put, imo. No ifs & buts, nailed it.

[jgcblack]

From reading your comments it really sounds like you're just trying too hard to adjust to people. Your mindset going in shouldn't be 'I'm going to find out how this guy plays and make adjustments to exploit everything he does' imo at this level. You should just be playing a standard TAG game almost always, and adjusting away from this once you have good information to suggest that you should do so.

A TAG strategy at these levels is good because it wins money vs the population tendencies of 10NL/25NL players. You're trying way too hard to adjust to everyone differently and you just end up getting yourself in a big tangle over what to do.

I appreciate that you want to exploit everyone as much as possible, but I think you're forgetting that a TAG strategy at these level is standard because it exploits the population tendencies of 10NL/25NL players. It looks to me like you're really determined to do better than TAG.

I think you just have to appreciate that your hand reading and bet sizing just aren't at the level for you to be able to play a more LAG style at this point. I know its not cool and it doesn't make for great hand history reviews but I honestly can't stress enough how much healthier your winrate would get if you cut out all of this stuff that in your mind is super-exploitative stuff, but in practice is just turning into spew.

Sorry if that came off as a bit harsh, but it really is true that tight is right at these levels.

Perfectly put, imo. No ifs & buts, nailed it.

+1, perfect.

It's what I'm trying to do, but its tough to go against my natural instincts.

I've collated all the evidence, videos, literature in order to 'tool' myself up so I can be prepared for all eventualities.  I definitely think there are some situations/ hands that I've played more optimally by taking different lines/ approaches to it.  However I think I use these 'few' hands/1000 to justify doing the same the rest of the time.

I'm trying to play 'standard' with a couple of adjustments, because I think they're going to be worth it.  But like Pat says, I have to work out the best time to use them.


ty Dan

[SuuPRlim]

http://wt.ag/QO8odV
this is just plain rude! wtf.... seriously?

I think this is NEVER a value bet otr, all the KQ and KJ hands we're vbetting vs on the turn outdraw us and will never fold, and every terrible draw he has got here with (KT exception) is ahead and will call.

Think it's an easy tiny bet/fold or c/fold vs a player like this.

[jgcblack]

currently playing a session on my day off in my hotel room...


And its bloody boring being a nit, waiting to cooler people.


Just had first big hand in a while happen..

UTG opens  
I 3bt CO  

FLOP
 

He cr, I shove... SNAPPED.

I feel deep joy @ how the flop hits him.

TURN
 

Freerolling innit...

RIVER
Some brick... sigh at boring coolers.

http://wt.ag/QO8odV
this is just plain rude! wtf.... seriously?

I think this is NEVER a value bet otr, all the KQ and KJ hands we're vbetting vs on the turn outdraw us and will never fold, and every terrible draw he has got here with (KT exception) is ahead and will call.

Think it's an easy tiny bet/fold or c/fold vs a player like this.

No offence mate (we're skyping atm) but i dont think your all listening to me..

THIS GUY WILL CALL WITH ANY PAIRED HAND on this river.... and we has two purrs = bet

[DMorgan]

I'd suggest that you pick up a copy of flopzilla or a similar program that will let you look at combinatorics. On these really wet boards when all of the draws complete, the number of combos of one pair hands that are actually calling these big river jams (even if it is true that he calls 3rd pair or better, which I'm very sceptical about btw) is definitely lower than the number of flush draw/straight draw/better 2pr combos that are never folding.

I know that you're mainly talking about one specific guy in that post and maybe he really doesn't ever fold a pair but that read has to be absolutely nailed on 100% for you to make plays like this. You are giving yourself absolutely no margin for error with these plays because he needs to be calling soooo wide for it to be +EV and once you start taking out some of those worse 1pr combos from he calling range, these size bets on these boards started to become a money pyre!

[DMorgan]

And its bloody boring being a nit, waiting to cooler people.

lol doesn't really sound like you're too excited about getting on the TAG train

You're absolutely not just waiting to cooler people, you're just exploiting people tendencies at 10NL which are to call too much by having stronger ranges than them. Sounds like a good idea right?