An Ape and a notebook, how long will it take?

[jgcblack]

I HAVE come to realise that Pat and the rest of you are correct about the bet,bet,bet line with folding to raises very often at 10 and 25nl.  I was trying to be too clever too often in too many kinds of spots.  However, using that 'clever' in some % of the spots is not only correct but more optimal than the 'programmed' lines the regs take.

Its simply not more optimal at these stakes to do some of the crazy things you've shown in these hand histories.

"However, using that 'clever' in some % of the spots is not only correct but more optimal than the 'programmed' lines the regs take."

It is simply not necessary to do the things you are trying to make profitable. There is no need for perfect balance, no need to have the 20% gs/bdfd range Pat has when he b/3bs. Just cut all the spew out, focus on playing super tight and making profitable plays. Cut out the fps shit, it is not needed. Your throwing mud at a wall and hoping it sticks. When you learn that playing the sexy Pads way of 30/27/19 is only sexy when it is profitable, and that its not how poker has to be played. Sitting down, being a nit, playing 14/14/5 and making money is a million times better for everyone involved. Your making microstakes hold'em look like brain surgery. Employ the tight hammer to crack the nut, stop trying to be Robin Hood shooting an apple off his friends head.

perfect post mate +1.

thanks.

It's not easy to stop myself doing but I am trying and I AM improving. 

where are the signs of improvement? every 20 hands there are 5 big spews, as they were from day 1. the a4/kq are as bad as any hand from the first day.

Looking back to the first few sets of hands I showed there was a LOT of spew and only a few solid hands..

In here there is a few 'very' spewy hands, with some form of explanation... (no comments on those yet) and a lot of hands that were for value but some misplayed, some unfortunate and some that we were always destined to lose money in.

If you think I'm just the same player I was when you asked to stake me then I think you need to end this.

[pleno1]

as far as talking or watching me play which you keep requesting, watching me is going to be the nut worst thing.

i've said it from day one. find a hand, value bet when you are raised, fold. you really need to understand this concept or you wont improve. it doesn;t matter if you wtach 30 hours of me, watch 50 videos, you need to teach yourself NOT to spew. theres nothing i can do or say or communicate or show you other than, dont do ridiculous bluffs that you know afterwards are total spazzy./

if it means playing 1 table and boring yourself to death fine, if it means a 2 bi stop loss to stop yourself then fine. but i really think there is a huge huge side of degeneracy from you that is potentially really dangerous.

constantly chasing hands with no where near the required equity
not stopping when you lose x amount because you feel like you can win it back

are both two massive massive alarming things and usually if you did this you'd never get staked by anybody again for any thing, couple together with the live cash things that we spoke about and its really potentially dangerous to invest.

i do believe in you though and confident enough that when you mature and look at yourself and think stop being a prat and actually give this a good go instead of giving it a good go for 26 days in a month and then spewing for the other 4 to chase losses/non wionnings that there isn';t anybody who can teach you to beat the game properly.

the fact is if you did a bet that you could beat the game over 100k hands you'd play tight for 7000 hands then absolutely do your bollocks for the other 3k, once you get to 30k you will have lost thousands, ive said it again and again but after months it hasn't seem to sinked in. i know you respect lildave but he will tell you exactly the same thing.

it doesn't matter if your a game is great if your b and c game are bad and at the moment your C game makes it impossible to beat at ANY stake, as has been shown from NL10.

You have lots of guys who want to potentially help you and give you advice/coaching, this doesn't happen often, infact it doesn't happen to 99.999% of players, you're potentially going to be very very lucky, for your sake pull your finger out and concentrate and you can do it.

Many people said about 1 month ago that I was being too harsh and should be kinder, the fact is you really need somebody breaking your balls and criticizing otherwise its too eays to fall into that C game that is currently killing you.

[pleno1]

also the fact that people say 2classic john black" "we want spew" etc will do nothing but encourage the c game mentality.

[jgcblack]

as far as talking or watching me play which you keep requesting, watching me is going to be the nut worst thing.

i've said it from day one. find a hand, value bet when you are raised, fold. you really need to understand this concept or you wont improve. it doesn;t matter if you wtach 30 hours of me, watch 50 videos, you need to teach yourself NOT to spew. theres nothing i can do or say or communicate or show you other than, dont do ridiculous bluffs that you know afterwards are total spazzy./

if it means playing 1 table and boring yourself to death fine, if it means a 2 bi stop loss to stop yourself then fine. but i really think there is a huge huge side of degeneracy from you that is potentially really dangerous.

constantly chasing hands with no where near the required equity
not stopping when you lose x amount because you feel like you can win it back

are both two massive massive alarming things and usually if you did this you'd never get staked by anybody again for any thing, couple together with the live cash things that we spoke about and its really potentially dangerous to invest.

i do believe in you though and confident enough that when you mature and look at yourself and think stop being a prat and actually give this a good go instead of giving it a good go for 26 days in a month and then spewing for the other 4 to chase losses/non wionnings that there isn';t anybody who can teach you to beat the game properly.

the fact is if you did a bet that you could beat the game over 100k hands you'd play tight for 7000 hands then absolutely do your bollocks for the other 3k, once you get to 30k you will have lost thousands, ive said it again and again but after months it hasn't seem to sinked in. i know you respect lildave but he will tell you exactly the same thing.

it doesn't matter if your a game is great if your b and c game are bad and at the moment your C game makes it impossible to beat at ANY stake, as has been shown from NL10.

You have lots of guys who want to potentially help you and give you advice/coaching, this doesn't happen often, infact it doesn't happen to 99.999% of players, you're potentially going to be very very lucky, for your sake pull your finger out and concentrate and you can do it.

Many people said about 1 month ago that I was being too harsh and should be kinder, the fact is you really need somebody breaking your balls and criticizing otherwise its too eays to fall into that C game that is currently killing you.

All true, which is why I asked you to show me in an hour or two of 25 or 50nl.. you can still win some $$ so its not a complete loss and you can show me on MY site that it really does work and its just me being silly.  You wouldn't have to play 'your' most loose, creative style... just play the 18/15/4 you want me to and show me it works.  I try to listen and drum it in and get it through but like you say I last for x amount of time then slip up.

watch me play mate.. for short periods, just something to 'remind' me that I AM playing correctly and to keep it up for the next few days/ week/ whatever until the next 'session'.

And since we haven't talked on skype, I need to know what you want to do... am I reloading on WPT..? at which level.. with what controls?
(and what if my first two hands are KK vs AA aipf on two tables... do i just quit for the night?)

[pleno1]

again..

you CAN play good. if i watch you you WILL play good, its the 30% of the time, it may even be 10% which then kills you.

[titaniumbean]

You have lots of guys who want to potentially help you and give you advice/coaching, this doesn't happen often, infact it doesn't happen to 99.999% of players, you're potentially going to be very very lucky, for your sake pull your finger out and concentrate and you can do it.

Many people said about 1 month ago that I was being too harsh and should be kinder, the fact is you really need somebody breaking your balls and criticizing otherwise its too eays to fall into that C game that is currently killing you.

+1 then +2 then +3.

Sum those numbers and add a + infront of it.

[SuuPRlim]

Hi John,

I know I've said this over and over but I've been lucky enough to watch some really great players play online, Jon Godfrey, Rob Woodcock and JP Kelly are the three that stick out in my head, the reason these guys stick out for me is not because of how they can check-raise triple merge range on scary turn cards (I have no Idea what that means) but the way they are when they are playing poker. Very Still, very composed, very focused, they have the same amount of time to act as all the other players at the table but it feels like they have double the time because of how clearly they are making decisions, two reasons for this;

Firstly a phenomenal amount of experience, you don't have this yet, but niether did these guys at some point

Secondly, their focus is entirely on this hand and their strategy, they aren't thinking "need to win Xbuyins to move up" or "really want to own this guy" all they think about is how to play this hand best in terms of the hand itself and their strategy overall, JP constantly explains his lines in PLO to me with the sentence "I think that just makes me really tough to play" because of this there thinking has way more clarity and when it goes wrong there focus holds.

Obviously it's very difficult to reach this level of competency, using three of the UK's best players as an example but these are the people and the levels of play we should all be aspiring to, the way they approach the game mentally is one of the huge things that set's them aside.

I've coached a few people for low stakes poker and they've all started with the same problem, they don't focus properly and quickly lose composure, I see this in the hands you play ALL the TIME, and I mean ALL THE TIME, in fact, I can even picture it happening. You sat their clicking away and playing well, then all of a sudden the session takes a turn for the worse (this happens every session you dont run incredible in at some point) and all of a sudden you head goes, you're now thinking "sigh, now im not going to get to 50nl by the end of the month" and you start to play some horrible poker. This isn't uncommon, I've been a decent victim to it in the past, but like Pads says if you play well 90% of the time and in this state 10% of the time you're going to find it IMPOSSIBLE to win at any game, and any stakes.

I play poker with a lot of people who lose money at poker, and in actual fact 95% of them actually have a poker game which is pretty good, but EVERY SINGLE time they play, without fail they have a period where they lose focus/lose thier heads/just gamble and this is why they lose. One tie in twenty this will make them win, but EVERY OTHER TIME, without fail they lose for this very reason. This is basically what's happening with you right now, except with a the level of poker intelligence you actually have + the resources around you there is no reason why you wouldn't beat poker decently.

This is the thing, and I don't know how many times I've said this to people.

IT TAKES TIME

As much as you want to be, you're not quite there yet and there is nothing wrong with this, but the fact that this frustrates you is what is holding you back. The proposal of a bet to beat 50nl when you haven;t been beating 25nl is just ego, and there is nothing more expensive in poker than ego. Good players with big ego's have been paying the rent of a lot of great players you've never heard of for years and years. This is you wanting to defend you're recent failings at 25nl with some silly explanation that you want to be a "flare player." hopefully you'll read this back in a few weeks and realise how stupid saying "well I COULD WIN, but I'd rather lose and play fancy first" sounds. I believe firmly that the reason you have not been winning is due to faults in your mental approach to the game. This is what makes you spew.

Note at no point in this post did I mention anything about your poker game, your game is good and you have a decent amount of poker intelligence.

This is all prolly pretty harsh sounding but pretty much nothing I've never said before at some point. I think you're so determined to get to 50nl that it's distracting you from the REASON that you need to get to 50nl, lets not forget Pads could easily put you in 50nl games if he so chose to, but he wants you to PROVE that you fundamental and mental game is solid first. If you won $2k at 10c/25c but played terrbily, patrick would not be letting you play 50nl, if you won $600 at 10 and 25nl over 100k hands but played super solidly, he'd very liekly let you play there.

The objective is ruining the process for you.

Some advice based on some observations (whatever its worth): Try to think in terms of relative hand strength rather than absolute hand strength, this seems to be a huge problem and leads to you making some bad value bets / calls (hands 1/2/4/5). And going all in because you're not sure what else to do is not a good excuse. It also seems like you have a problem getting drawn into silly leveling wars (hand 8/12) that probably only exist in your head, when you get into those spots just try to focus on playing your hand / range well and let them make mistakes against you (its hard for you to go wrong doing that) (this last part is definitely something I used to have a problem with aswell)

This is a brilliant post btw.

[jgcblack]

again..

you CAN play good. if i watch you you WILL play good, its the 30% of the time, it may even be 10% which then kills you.

true

You have lots of guys who want to potentially help you and give you advice/coaching, this doesn't happen often, infact it doesn't happen to 99.999% of players, you're potentially going to be very very lucky, for your sake pull your finger out and concentrate and you can do it.

Many people said about 1 month ago that I was being too harsh and should be kinder, the fact is you really need somebody breaking your balls and criticizing otherwise its too eays to fall into that C game that is currently killing you.

+1 then +2 then +3.

Sum those numbers and add a + infront of it.

true


And Dave... well yet again mate you're amazing.  One day I'll find a way to show you or help you in a way you need... in the meantime I'll just keep trying to soak up what you and the other guys on here are saying.

Its hard to do so sometimes.  The 'want' to get there is so strong and its hard to sideline/ kick it for a 'play this hand and only this hand' mentality - esp coming from a 'live' casino environment and the players it breeds.  I am moving more towards this, but I'm not there yet. (I really want 'knowing this' to help me, but its not doing enough yet)

[DMorgan]

Hi John,

I know I've said this over and over but I've been lucky enough to watch some really great players play online, Jon Godfrey, Rob Woodcock and JP Kelly are the three that stick out in my head, the reason these guys stick out for me is not because of how they can check-raise triple merge range on scary turn cards (I have no Idea what that means) but the way they are when they are playing poker. Very Still, very composed, very focused, they have the same amount of time to act as all the other players at the table but it feels like they have double the time because of how clearly they are making decisions, two reasons for this;

Firstly a phenomenal amount of experience, you don't have this yet, but niether did these guys at some point

Secondly, their focus is entirely on this hand and their strategy, they aren't thinking "need to win Xbuyins to move up" or "really want to own this guy" all they think about is how to play this hand best in terms of the hand itself and their strategy overall, JP constantly explains his lines in PLO to me with the sentence "I think that just makes me really tough to play" because of this there thinking has way more clarity and when it goes wrong there focus holds.

Obviously it's very difficult to reach this level of competency, using three of the UK's best players as an example but these are the people and the levels of play we should all be aspiring to, the way they approach the game mentally is one of the huge things that set's them aside.

I've coached a few people for low stakes poker and they've all started with the same problem, they don't focus properly and quickly lose composure, I see this in the hands you play ALL the TIME, and I mean ALL THE TIME, in fact, I can even picture it happening. You sat their clicking away and playing well, then all of a sudden the session takes a turn for the worse (this happens every session you dont run incredible in at some point) and all of a sudden you head goes, you're now thinking "sigh, now im not going to get to 50nl by the end of the month" and you start to play some horrible poker. This isn't uncommon, I've been a decent victim to it in the past, but like Pads says if you play well 90% of the time and in this state 10% of the time you're going to find it IMPOSSIBLE to win at any game, and any stakes.

I play poker with a lot of people who lose money at poker, and in actual fact 95% of them actually have a poker game which is pretty good, but EVERY SINGLE time they play, without fail they have a period where they lose focus/lose thier heads/just gamble and this is why they lose. One tie in twenty this will make them win, but EVERY OTHER TIME, without fail they lose for this very reason. This is basically what's happening with you right now, except with a the level of poker intelligence you actually have + the resources around you there is no reason why you wouldn't beat poker decently.

This is the thing, and I don't know how many times I've said this to people.

IT TAKES TIME

As much as you want to be, you're not quite there yet and there is nothing wrong with this, but the fact that this frustrates you is what is holding you back. The proposal of a bet to beat 50nl when you haven;t been beating 25nl is just ego, and there is nothing more expensive in poker than ego. Good players with big ego's have been paying the rent of a lot of great players you've never heard of for years and years. This is you wanting to defend you're recent failings at 25nl with some silly explanation that you want to be a "flare player." hopefully you'll read this back in a few weeks and realise how stupid saying "well I COULD WIN, but I'd rather lose and play fancy first" sounds. I believe firmly that the reason you have not been winning is due to faults in your mental approach to the game. This is what makes you spew.

Note at no point in this post did I mention anything about your poker game, your game is good and you have a decent amount of poker intelligence.

This is all prolly pretty harsh sounding but pretty much nothing I've never said before at some point. I think you're so determined to get to 50nl that it's distracting you from the REASON that you need to get to 50nl, lets not forget Pads could easily put you in 50nl games if he so chose to, but he wants you to PROVE that you fundamental and mental game is solid first. If you won $2k at 10c/25c but played terrbily, patrick would not be letting you play 50nl, if you won $600 at 10 and 25nl over 100k hands but played super solidly, he'd very liekly let you play there.

The objective is ruining the process for you.

Some advice based on some observations (whatever its worth): Try to think in terms of relative hand strength rather than absolute hand strength, this seems to be a huge problem and leads to you making some bad value bets / calls (hands 1/2/4/5). And going all in because you're not sure what else to do is not a good excuse. It also seems like you have a problem getting drawn into silly leveling wars (hand 8/12) that probably only exist in your head, when you get into those spots just try to focus on playing your hand / range well and let them make mistakes against you (its hard for you to go wrong doing that) (this last part is definitely something I used to have a problem with aswell)

This is a brilliant post btw.

<3

[nirvana]

Very good posts ITT.

Cliffs

Lack of self awareness & emotional intelligence and a slightly deluded narcissism is what's holding you back.

You always appear to take constructive criticism very well. You get a ton of advice from people who know how to win at these levels and above - but you find a number of different constructs to ignore it.

All you need to do is determine to listen really.

[jgcblack]

Very good posts ITT.

Cliffs

Lack of self awareness & emotional intelligence and a slightly deluded narcissism is what's holding you back.

You always appear to take constructive criticism very well. You get a ton of advice from people who know how to win at these levels and above - but you find a number of different constructs to ignore it.

All you need to do is determine to listen really.

Completely... Doesn't make it any easier for me to do though.

[paulhouk03]

are you and justinsayne gonna have a bet?

[SuuPRlim]

Lack of self awareness & emotional intelligence and a slightly deluded narcissism is what's holding you back.

You always appear to take constructive criticism very well. You get a ton of advice from people who know how to win at these levels and above - but you find a number of different constructs to ignore it.

All you need to do is determine to listen really.

Nirvana spot on as always

I know it's tough mate, but like I said it takes its own time, just enjoy playing the game for now, after all it's a game isn't it? Then just let your progression take it's natural cause.

[AlunB]

Hi John,

I know I've said this over and over but I've been lucky enough to watch some really great players play online, Jon Godfrey, Rob Woodcock and JP Kelly are the three that stick out in my head, the reason these guys stick out for me is not because of how they can check-raise triple merge range on scary turn cards (I have no Idea what that means) but the way they are when they are playing poker. Very Still, very composed, very focused, they have the same amount of time to act as all the other players at the table but it feels like they have double the time because of how clearly they are making decisions, two reasons for this;

Firstly a phenomenal amount of experience, you don't have this yet, but niether did these guys at some point

Secondly, their focus is entirely on this hand and their strategy, they aren't thinking "need to win Xbuyins to move up" or "really want to own this guy" all they think about is how to play this hand best in terms of the hand itself and their strategy overall, JP constantly explains his lines in PLO to me with the sentence "I think that just makes me really tough to play" because of this there thinking has way more clarity and when it goes wrong there focus holds.

Obviously it's very difficult to reach this level of competency, using three of the UK's best players as an example but these are the people and the levels of play we should all be aspiring to, the way they approach the game mentally is one of the huge things that set's them aside.

I've coached a few people for low stakes poker and they've all started with the same problem, they don't focus properly and quickly lose composure, I see this in the hands you play ALL the TIME, and I mean ALL THE TIME, in fact, I can even picture it happening. You sat their clicking away and playing well, then all of a sudden the session takes a turn for the worse (this happens every session you dont run incredible in at some point) and all of a sudden you head goes, you're now thinking "sigh, now im not going to get to 50nl by the end of the month" and you start to play some horrible poker. This isn't uncommon, I've been a decent victim to it in the past, but like Pads says if you play well 90% of the time and in this state 10% of the time you're going to find it IMPOSSIBLE to win at any game, and any stakes.

I play poker with a lot of people who lose money at poker, and in actual fact 95% of them actually have a poker game which is pretty good, but EVERY SINGLE time they play, without fail they have a period where they lose focus/lose thier heads/just gamble and this is why they lose. One tie in twenty this will make them win, but EVERY OTHER TIME, without fail they lose for this very reason. This is basically what's happening with you right now, except with a the level of poker intelligence you actually have + the resources around you there is no reason why you wouldn't beat poker decently.

This is the thing, and I don't know how many times I've said this to people.

IT TAKES TIME

As much as you want to be, you're not quite there yet and there is nothing wrong with this, but the fact that this frustrates you is what is holding you back. The proposal of a bet to beat 50nl when you haven;t been beating 25nl is just ego, and there is nothing more expensive in poker than ego. Good players with big ego's have been paying the rent of a lot of great players you've never heard of for years and years. This is you wanting to defend you're recent failings at 25nl with some silly explanation that you want to be a "flare player." hopefully you'll read this back in a few weeks and realise how stupid saying "well I COULD WIN, but I'd rather lose and play fancy first" sounds. I believe firmly that the reason you have not been winning is due to faults in your mental approach to the game. This is what makes you spew.

Note at no point in this post did I mention anything about your poker game, your game is good and you have a decent amount of poker intelligence.

This is all prolly pretty harsh sounding but pretty much nothing I've never said before at some point. I think you're so determined to get to 50nl that it's distracting you from the REASON that you need to get to 50nl, lets not forget Pads could easily put you in 50nl games if he so chose to, but he wants you to PROVE that you fundamental and mental game is solid first. If you won $2k at 10c/25c but played terrbily, patrick would not be letting you play 50nl, if you won $600 at 10 and 25nl over 100k hands but played super solidly, he'd very liekly let you play there.

The objective is ruining the process for you.

Some advice based on some observations (whatever its worth): Try to think in terms of relative hand strength rather than absolute hand strength, this seems to be a huge problem and leads to you making some bad value bets / calls (hands 1/2/4/5). And going all in because you're not sure what else to do is not a good excuse. It also seems like you have a problem getting drawn into silly leveling wars (hand 8/12) that probably only exist in your head, when you get into those spots just try to focus on playing your hand / range well and let them make mistakes against you (its hard for you to go wrong doing that) (this last part is definitely something I used to have a problem with aswell)

This is a brilliant post btw.

No THIS is a brilliant post. Outstanding.

[cambridgealex]

You've all made brilliant posts. Pat yourselves on the back. I'd like to post too but I don't think it'd be as brilliant as you guys.