Hand from SPT Luton

[WotRTheChances]

Side note, what is avg stack? Are there a bunch of tiny stacks? If so, you could possibly find an ICM excuse to fold, but otherwise arrrrrlll innnn

[mondatoo]

i just got really tilted monda..

On your avartar you have to get a balla stack size too.. Sitting out? Rofffl

Haha, I was only planning to have it there for a few days after I done it but haven't found anything to change it too, well I can think of one thing 

Don't think I've posted it on this board actually....

do it. in fact we should all change to pics of her

Good idea.

[AlexMartin]

Nice structure, think its a clear fold, good discussion

+1

[cambridgealex]

This thread must be a giant level. Who the hell is folding Jacks to one raise (even if it is 3.75x) with 25bbs? Are you all friggin nuts?

[Eso Kral]

This thread must be a giant level. Who the hell is folding Jacks to one raise (even if it is 3.75x) with 25bbs? Are you all friggin nuts nits?

fyp

[TommyD]

This thread must be a giant level. Who the hell is folding Jacks to one raise (even if it is 3.75x) with 25bbs? Are you all friggin nuts?

Not a level.  Just a hang over from about level 3 to level 7 on day one where all I saw were early position raisers opening from 4x to 6x, collecting the blinds and showing QQ or AK while being happy about not getting action.  Wasn't this guy on Day one, but so many people were scared to play out of position that they just wanted to scare everyone away.

[mondatoo]

When I played the Newc one guy 6x'd it utg got to showdown and showed A3os, variance.

[the rage]

Does anyone out there like the CALL option?
I've been looking at this hand, and out of the three possible options available CALL seems to be the least worst choice out of three bad ones.
My thinking is-
                     If we jam and everyone folds, we add nearly 25% to our stack, which is great, but we are still a long way from the big money.
                     If we jam and villian calls, 38% of the time we win a great pot to put us in with a great chance in the comp, but, we walk 62% of the time
                     If we fold, not the end of the world, but we possibly miss an opportunity to double up versus our solid but fairly staightforward opponent.
                     If we call, we play a pot in position against the original raiser and if an oponent yet to act shoves we get to see the original raiser's response before committing more chips. If anyone else just flats, whille not ideal,
                      it improves our odds to set mine.
                     If, as expected, we play the pot in position against the original raiser. If we hit our jack, happy days. If we miss and villian leads out, we give up.
                     If villian checks, we check behind, for another shot at hitting our jack.
                     If villian bets the turn we generally give up. If he checks we bet, folding to a shove.

 Just wondering if anyone thinks that a CALL is a viable option here, or am i being too nitty / passive as usual ?

[cambridgealex]

Say he's raising a really tight range - AJ+, 88+ only, and he's calling a shove with AQss, AK and TT+ (seems a likely range). That means he's folding half the time and we increase our stack by 25%. When called we're 44% vs his calling range.

Its a really simple shove even if he's raising really tight. Throw in some KQs, KJss, AT, smaller pairs and its even more of a no brainer.

[the rage]

Cheers for that reply Alex.
According to my EV calcs, using your raising / calling ranges, shoving is indeed a +EV move, showing a 6828 chips profit.
But, if you take TT out of villian's calling range, giving him a range of 3.3% of hands, shoving is still +EV, but only by a mere 878 chips, making it virtually a neutral EV move.
I'm not disputing the fact that shoving is frequently a good move, but in this situation, i think it's very close and highly dependant on villian not having a very narrow calling range, which i think villian may well have in this scenario.
 Factoring in other things, such as tournament equity and hero's perceived edge at the table, shoving doesn't look like such a good idea to me. Which is why i wondered if calling was a viable move, as folding JJ, especially in position, seems a little too passive.
  Just having a go by the way, so i dont mind if anyone wants to put me right if i'm totally barking up the wrong tree. 

[cambridgealex]

Calling is better than folding at least, but I don't like it - you'll probably be forced into making a ton of mistakes postflop.

[stato_1]

thing is AJ+ 88+ should def not be considered a tight opening range for him here

[cambridgealex]

Ur not folding though are u stato?

[stato_1]

Well i wouldnt have made it this far.

Nah I don't think im folding but its prob far closer than it looks

[celtic]

Jamming JJ in this comp is a huge mistake imo.