A simple question

[ACE2M]

Why are we objecting to someone being told the pot size by the dealer if the player asks him to count it?  i hate it when they tell the player without asking but thats obv bad form.

[kinboshi]

Why are we objecting to someone being told the pot size by the dealer if the player asks him to count it?  i hate it when they tell the player without asking but thats obv bad form.

Shouldn't a player be able to follow how much is in the pot, or work it out?  Isn't that one of the skills of the live game (as mentioned earlier)?

[Jon MW]

Why are we objecting to someone being told the pot size by the dealer if the player asks him to count it?  i hate it when they tell the player without asking but thats obv bad form.

Shouldn't a player be able to follow how much is in the pot, or work it out?  Isn't that one of the skills of the live game (as mentioned earlier)?

Yes. But does it really matter?

Just how much of an advantage are they gaining by just being told?

Especially as the alternative is most likely that they ask the dealer to spread the chips so that they can laboriously try and count them out like that - wouldn't it just be a lot more efficient if they could just ask and the dealer told them?

[kinboshi]

Why are we objecting to someone being told the pot size by the dealer if the player asks him to count it?  i hate it when they tell the player without asking but thats obv bad form.

Shouldn't a player be able to follow how much is in the pot, or work it out?  Isn't that one of the skills of the live game (as mentioned earlier)?

Yes. But does it really matter?

Just how much of an advantage are they gaining by just being told?

Especially as the alternative is most likely that they ask the dealer to spread the chips so that they can laboriously try and count them out like that - wouldn't it just be a lot more efficient if they could just ask and the dealer told them?

...and if someone asks on every street of every hand?

[gatso]

Why are we objecting to someone being told the pot size by the dealer if the player asks him to count it?  i hate it when they tell the player without asking but thats obv bad form.

not sure anyone's particularly objecting. more saying that they shouldn't be told because that's clearly set out in the tda rules

whether or not it's a good rule is a different discussion

[MANTIS01]

Isn't negotiating a good deal at the final table one of the skills of the live game?

If poker did abandon deal making it would slightly disadvantage players with people skills....so why not announce the pot and slightly disadvantage players who are good at maths while we're about it? Poker scientists with dominant left brain activity shouldn't get priority over poker artists with dominant right imo

[paulhouk03]

it displays the pot size and and allows u bet the size of the pot online....................

You don't have to wear clothes when you play online...

Really might try that live
And give that excuse

[Junior Senior]

 The amount of times any one player in a given tournament wold really ask to know the pot size is so small that i cant see an issue with them beng given that information if asking for it. It will usually be when they are facing a decisin to call on river IMO rather than each street to decide on sizing.

Whats the current position by the way at Dtd? If next time i go i bet pot what will the dealer tell me?

[kinboshi]

The amount of times any one player in a given tournament wold really ask to know the pot size is so small that i cant see an issue with them beng given that information if asking for it. It will usually be when they are facing a decisin to call on river IMO rather than each street to decide on sizing.

Whats the current position by the way at Dtd? If next time i go i bet pot what will the dealer tell me?

If you say "I bet pot", they'll ask you how much you want to bet. 

If you ask what the pot is, they'll tell you they're not allowed to say, but will spread the pot for you so you can see the chips more clearly.

[Cf]

No, players should not be told what the pot is. And no, they should not be allowed to bet the pot.

If they want to know how much is in there then they should pay attention.

Obviously online it displays it because it pretty much doesn't have any choice.

But in the live game it is a players responsibility to follow the action and keep a running total (roughly) in their head.

And I agree that the string betting rule needs sorting out. So so so badly missapplied in every tournament I've played in. Throw in some chips where one happens to hit the felt half a second before the rest? OMG. STRING BET. DEALER. STRING BET. GET THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR. STRING BET. So so tilting.

[SuuPRlim]

Think it's good once in a while to challenge these rules which may or may not have become outdated. Our local gala STILL antes people when they miss a round of the button and cannot really justify why they do this. Such a tilting ridic rule but seems to remain because it's a rule they've always had

I agree, but top of the list to review HAS to be the way the string-betting rule is used in the UK.

I am not sure I have ever seen an intended string-bet, to be honest, or advantage gained from one. OK, some smartalec will remember one or two, but its out of all proportion to the arguments it causes, especially for newbies struggling to learn the game, whom we should be encouraging.

AGREE! Most outdated ridiculous rule ever.

YES YES YES to you both, without question the stupidest rule in poker.

I agree tikay I have never seen anyone deliberately string-bet in a live game, or try gain an advantage (one of the most famous ones was on the main when a guy who couldn't speak english moved 2million chips over, then brought them back and only bet 1million - was an obv string bet) but iv never seen in person.

What I have seen however, more times than i can count, is someone trying to bet £200, but mistakenly dropping £25 first as he puts his money over the line and another player in the pot (who will happily call £25 but doesn't want to call £200) getting the floor and insisting the bet is £25. How that isn't considered an angle-shoot is beyond me. its a rule that just relentlessly allows people to angle really innocent little mistakes.

In america they use the rule of "forward motion" where regardless of what you do with your chips it's the interpreted INTENTION that count's. so if i make a gesture the shows an intention to bet £200, then it stands, if i drop a few chips by mistake they don;t punish you. Much much better rule.

And ye, no to both initial questions, I can't think of any good reason why the dealer shouldn't be allowed to count the pot but I don't care cos it makes no difference to anyone's life. If people ask the dealer whats in the pot in hands vs me, I just tell them myself wat's in the pot I can't see how it makes a single difference, but as I say, I don't care

agree with george. lots of outdated rules, need to be looked at.

[doubleup]

If next time i go i bet pot what will the dealer tell me?

Try asking a dealer if they will make a cup of tea for you.  They will tell you to gtfo because it isn't their job.  Telling you what the size of the pot is or who open raised pre-flop or if anyone is on tilt isn't their job either.  The dealers job is to run the game, not be holdem manager.

[titaniumbean]

what lilD said.


There is a large mound of chips in the pot, we're playing NL what is in the pot is up to you to remember. Though i'd rather tell someone the pot than wait for them to get it spread and just stare at it and waste time.

[ACE2M]

I just don't get the point of forcing someone to add up the pot themselves, is it so you can feel superior?

[titaniumbean]

I just don't get the point of forcing someone to add up the pot themselves, is it so you can feel superior?

no it's because lots of people cant add + make mistakes + dem rules + speed of gameplay.