Basic MTT spots- A PHA diary

[George2Loose]

Right I'm ready to post up another hand if we're ready. Will let some final points from last hand be answered first if necessary

[david3103]

flat pre ainec was your advice for AQs George and I took it onboard.

Pot control and all that...

[George2Loose]

flat pre ainec was your advice for AQs George and I took it onboard.

Pot control and all that...

Pretty different when you're at 50/100 no ante with 10k stacks to this situation. Pretty different to your ave 40 quid live donkament opponent and a sick HSMTTer too

[the rage]

 Re the last hand.
I would play it pretty much as you did George. I think that villian wont be folding to a 3 bet very often and if he 4 bets you probably should fold as he's likely to be committed and your AJ wont be doing too well against his 4 bet range. If you 3 bet and he calls, you have to play an inflated pot oop against a good player with a hand that may well be dominated.
 I'm enjoying all of the comments, cheers for posting it.

[SuuPRlim]

i was saying that i would be happy to 3b/c vs gags30. People go ballis in online mtt's mate and we've been battling on the virtual felt for around 4 years, hes not looking down at any sort of blocker or value hand vs me and thinking fold.
Id imagine he's the same with bramm. He's just not going ballis enough of the time vs someone he has no history with to justify 3b/calling for G2L

Villain only has 30bbs.

in light of these points i retract my previous statement lol

guess it's a fold

[Mondeoman]

Hmmm interesting, pre its pretty close between all 3 options.  I prob peel but as a rule hate playing out the SB.  Dont really like 3 betting unless you think he will fold/peel a high % of the time or 4 bet bluff a lot. 
In my experience tourney players love a 4 bet over just flatting and if you get 4 bet here its a gross spot IMO. 
So having called i think i just fold the flop - in a deep cash game im peeling here all the time as you have a lot of good turn cards (clubs/10s/As) but here i think you are too shallow. 
On the flop you are out of position, you have ace high where your opponent almost certainly has a better hand, you dont have the betting initiative, if you hit gin i.e a 10 its difficult to get paid and hes supposed to be a decent player - this all leads me to an easy fold on the flop.  There are much better spots and you arent under any pressure.

[outragous76]

Hmmm interesting, pre its pretty close between all 3 options.  I prob peel but as a rule hate playing out the SB.  Dont really like 3 betting unless you think he will fold/peel a high % of the time or 4 bet bluff a lot.  
In my experience tourney players love a 4 bet over just flatting and if you get 4 bet here its a gross spot IMO.  
So having called i think i just fold the flop - in a deep cash game im peeling here all the time as you have a lot of good turn cards (clubs/10s/As) but here i think you are too shallow.  
On the flop you are out of position, you have ace high where your opponent almost certainly has a better hand, you dont have the betting initiative, if you hit gin i.e a 10 its difficult to get paid and hes supposed to be a decent player - this all leads me to an easy fold on the flop.  There are much better spots and you arent under any pressure.

I think this sums up why we should fold. Irrespective of our holding, it smashes our peeling range, yet we are still struggling to play the hand post flop either for value or bluffing the board texture. We pretty much have to bluff, and even our bluffs rely on non brick turns, and we always have to be leading for bluffs to get the money in with fold equity. Id need to know my bluffs were getting thru a good % of the time to peel pre, and as people dont fold at higher stakes, that seems less likely

[the rage]

I would like to change my mind. I will  still go for calling pre flop, but then check folding on the flop. I can see the merits of folding pre flop, but i do think that the hand has good enough implied odds to be worth investing 1.5bb in it. It could hit big and if villian has clubs too George could get the lot on suitable flops.
 I dont know if i'm being very naive in my thinking, hopefully someone will tell me.
 I get a bit confused in these spots. I hear / read conflicting advice. On the one hand, people saying try to avoid peeling out of position, but on the other hand people saying that , maybe, people dont peel enough against serial pre flop raisers, particularly min raises.
 Does the fact that villian is raising from UTG+2 mean that this villiain's range isn't worth defending against with AJ suited?
 Would it still be a fold pre flop if George was playing from the big blind?
Just interested, having been in similar (ish) spots playing live at DTD, and getting into a mess with AJ, i would be very close to just folding pre. Maybe the fact that the hand has royal flush, Nut flush and nut straight possibilities is what would make it hard for me to (probably correctly) fold. GG

[NigDawG]

I have huge respect for bram and trigg's game but how 3b/getting 45 bigs in here as george and not you two is anythign but spew is beyond me.

surely you can peel pre and c/f this flop and you've barely been exploited at all?

gags has 30bb and i said 3b/call "for me"

doubt george is seen as a complete random, i certainly see you bubble me around enough

[pleno1]

pre is debatable, winning session prob just fold pre, although flatting might be slightly superior.. losing session just wevs 3b/call and get a stack. Fuck this guy innit.

Flop is just such a clear fold as played imo, anything else would be super super bad imo.

[SuuPRlim]

I have huge respect for bram and trigg's game but how 3b/getting 45 bigs in here as george and not you two is anythign but spew is beyond me.

surely you can peel pre and c/f this flop and you've barely been exploited at all?

gags has 30bb and i said 3b/call "for me"

doubt george is seen as a complete random, i certainly see you bubble me around enough

yh turns out my post wasn't very good lol.

[Boba Fett]

I think peeling is pretty terrible tbh.  We almost never have AQ+/QQ+, we are out of position to a good reg who can control the size of the pot and who will stack us more than we can stack him.  We are check/folding most of the time and therefore folding the best hand a lot of the time.  I really prefer fold to peel.

If he almost never peels and if our 3b looks very strong from a random/probable reg with no history perspective to the point where he cant 4b light too often, can we not 3b/fold almost our full non-3b/call range?  This hand would be the absolute top of our 3bet/fold range and while it sucks to be 3b/folding AJs is it not the best non-fold pre line here?  It also serves to build history with a good reg villain in that he will at some point adjust and realize we are capable of 3b/folding in this spot leading to us being able to 3b/call this wide?

[George2Loose]

Pretty pleased at the comments re this hand. Think it goes to show what a tough spot it is even tho it's just to one raise.

Deffo agree it's a spot where I should be either 3 betting or folding. Maybe it's a rare spot where we can 3 bet without a plan and maybe decide if we get 4 bet.

[T_Mar]

I think peeling is pretty terrible tbh.  We almost never have AQ+/QQ+, we are out of position to a good reg who can control the size of the pot and who will stack us more than we can stack him.  We are check/folding most of the time and therefore folding the best hand a lot of the time.  I really prefer fold to peel.

If he almost never peels and if our 3b looks very strong from a random/probable reg with no history perspective to the point where he cant 4b light too often, can we not 3b/fold almost our full non-3b/call range?  This hand would be the absolute top of our 3bet/fold range and while it sucks to be 3b/folding AJs is it not the best non-fold pre line here?  It also serves to build history with a good reg villain in that he will at some point adjust and realize we are capable of 3b/folding in this spot leading to us being able to 3b/call this wide?

nice post

There are some similarities to a hand Spraggs posted...  http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=54648.15

Not exactly the same obviously, as was on final table and ICM considerations but some of replies could be applied here, and are along lines of boba's post

"3bet pre cos I want to fold and this is prolly the best hand I would fold so I should bluff with it. Also blockers, prolly only get called by 1 dominating hand (aq)."  -  middy

[Amatay]

not happy with sizing n stuff in this hand but even if i size it diff what do i do? what would u do here? Very early doors in a 30w1 on stars. both already got the rb. No history as i rarely play on stars

PokerStars Hand #76948153940: Tournament #526900137, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (20/40) - 2012/03/10 13:02:47 WET [2012/03/10 8:02:47 ET]
Table '526900137 8' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: 3LCH1N (2274 in chips)
Seat 2: ZaXoMy (7330 in chips)
Seat 3: geil_schneck (2499 in chips)
Seat 4: bfizz11 (6000 in chips)
Seat 5: 4chrisdim (6000 in chips)
Seat 6: Akiem (2880 in chips)
Seat 7: quixote123 (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: simonjjj (6000 in chips)
Seat 9: THE__D__RY (6000 in chips)
geil_schneck: posts small blind 20
bfizz11: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to simonjjj [ Ah]
4chrisdim: folds
Akiem: folds
quixote123: folds
simonjjj: raises 40 to 80
THE__D__RY has timed out
THE__D__RY: folds
THE__D__RY is sitting out
3LCH1N: folds
THE__D__RY has returned
ZaXoMy: calls 80
geil_schneck: folds
bfizz11: folds
*** FLOP *** [ As ]
simonjjj: bets 160
ZaXoMy: calls 160
*** TURN *** [ As ] []
simonjjj: bets 440
ZaXoMy: raises 440 to 880
simonjjj: folds
Uncalled bet (440) returned to ZaXoMy
ZaXoMy collected 1420 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1420 | Rake 0
Board [ As ]
Seat 1: 3LCH1N folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ZaXoMy (button) collected (1420)
Seat 3: geil_schneck (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: bfizz11 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: 4chrisdim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Akiem folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: quixote123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: simonjjj folded on the Turn
Seat 9: THE__D__RY folded before Flop (didn't bet)