Jeremy Clarkson on Airport Immgration Delays

[Woodsey]

worst thread on blonde this year

I'm actually on the fence as to whether your bad beat moans either made your staking thread one of the funniest or worst threads of the year 

[RED-DOG]

I think a lot of the time the so called ethnic minorities are the ones who do not wish to intergrate into our society.. they often choose to isolate themselves within their own community...

Integration works both ways as does racism I'm afraid... ignorance and stupidity is and always will be prevalent in all communities whatever race creed or colour and it is this that causes racism, for hating someone because of the colour of their skin can only be perpetrated by the ignorant and stupid.

I'm in full agreement with the second paragraph, but puzzled by the first one.

Why do you say 'So called' ethnic minorities rather than just 'ethnic minorities'?

I'm intrigued by the term 'Our society'. What does it mean?

[RED-DOG]

Red do you get stopped and searched frequently or are you regular folk?

When my vehicles were registered to an address that ended in 'Caravan site', I used to get stopped two or three times a week, often by the same officers. Now that I have an inconspicuous address, it doesn't happen.

When I first came to live here, the local bobby came down and introduced himself to me. He was genuinely a nice chap, we chatted for ages. Just as he was leaving he said "By the way, if anything goes missing in the village, can I come and look in your sheds?".

Every one in the village objected to my being here. ten years later, everyone supported my application to stay. These days, they pat my shoulder and say with a knowing look, "You're OK you are Tom, but you're not really a Gypsy are you?".


Don't get me wrong. I don't blame the police, or the villagers. I blame the media. They have been inciting fear, suspicion and hatred for generations.

They still are.

[kinboshi]

Our society = WASPs?

(maybe?)

[the sicilian]

I think a lot of the time the so called ethnic minorities are the ones who do not wish to intergrate into our society.. they often choose to isolate themselves within their own community...

Integration works both ways as does racism I'm afraid... ignorance and stupidity is and always will be prevalent in all communities whatever race creed or colour and it is this that causes racism, for hating someone because of the colour of their skin can only be perpetrated by the ignorant and stupid.

I'm in full agreement with the second paragraph, but puzzled by the first one.

Why do you say 'So called' ethnic minorities rather than just 'ethnic minorities'?

I'm intrigued by the term 'Our society'. What does it mean?

Probably why I was loath to get involved in this thread but felt compelled..because of the nature of this discussion mis phrasing can be constituted for possible racial overtones....

So called minorities because in truth they are not....numbers are rising and will even out...once again it sounds moody...I don't care your colour or creed as long as you contribute and add to the country..don't take..use and generally take the piss out of the uk's wonderfully liberal attitude..... society..well shall we say indigenous population..doesn't matter colour then.... If you come to our country integrate...appreciate the opportunity you have been given and work towards giving something back..don't hide in the cloak of your beliefs and ideals..sit and laugh as you continually take that what is freely given ..open  your eyes and hearts as the people whose country you now call home have..don't build Walls and then put on the sad face and scream racism ....

When people realise no matter what colour race etc there are always good and bad in all...we are all human beings we are all flawed and we are all capable of bad as well as good.. Sooner we get over that hump we might have a chance...

Rant over gonna go and get my swastika armband just in time to be called a racist moron...

[Doobs]

You see a lot of bad arguments around stop and search, as people misuse the stats.  Black people a lot more likely than white people to be stopped and searched.  There is no doubt on this, but that doesn't stop the statistics been skewed a lot as much of the stop and searching happens in London, where black people are more common than they are in other parts of the UK.  

Black people are also over represented in the crime stats,  particularly street crime.   I think there was some statistic I read where not only was stop and search way more likely if you were black, but once you had chosen to search somebody, you were something like ten times more likely to find a gun/knife through searching a black person than searching a white person.  I realise that there is also a link to poverty, but it is not as strong as race.

So if you are a police force with limited resources, what proportion of stop and searches do you perfom on the black population?   Is it in line with the population differences, in line with the crime statistics, or do you forget the bad headlines and just target the set of people that is likely to lead to the biggest success?  

I know quite a bit about risk.  In the world of risk, your best use of resources is to target the biggest risks.  If I was to apply similar strategies to the customs lines, or deciding on stop and searches, I would not be concluding I should be stopping people in line with their representation in the general population.   I think you should lean your decision to the statistics rather than how your decision may look to the outside world.

It is clearly a devisive issue, and the Met have recently said they are going to cut down on stop and search.  I hope they made this decision solely because stop and search is a bad way of targetting crime.  

[RED-DOG]

I think a lot of the time the so called ethnic minorities are the ones who do not wish to intergrate into our society.. they often choose to isolate themselves within their own community...

Integration works both ways as does racism I'm afraid... ignorance and stupidity is and always will be prevalent in all communities whatever race creed or colour and it is this that causes racism, for hating someone because of the colour of their skin can only be perpetrated by the ignorant and stupid.

I'm in full agreement with the second paragraph, but puzzled by the first one.

Why do you say 'So called' ethnic minorities rather than just 'ethnic minorities'?

I'm intrigued by the term 'Our society'. What does it mean?

Probably why I was loath to get involved in this thread but felt compelled..because of the nature of this discussion mis phrasing can be constituted for possible racial overtones....

So called minorities because in truth they are not....numbers are rising and will even out...once again it sounds moody...I don't care your colour or creed as long as you contribute and add to the country..don't take..use and generally take the piss out of the uk's wonderfully liberal attitude..... society..well shall we say indigenous population..doesn't matter colour then.... If you come to our country integrate...appreciate the opportunity you have been given and work towards giving something back..don't hide in the cloak of your beliefs and ideals..sit and laugh as you continually take that what is freely given ..open  your eyes and hearts as the people whose country you now call home have..don't build Walls and then put on the sad face and scream racism ....

When people realise no matter what colour race etc there are always good and bad in all...we are all human beings we are all flawed and we are all capable of bad as well as good.. Sooner we get over that hump we might have a chance...

Rant over gonna go and get my swastika armband just in time to be called a racist moron...

Believe it or not I'm also loath to get involved in this discussion, but it's all good honest debate and I think that benefits everyone.

For the record, I'm not accusing you or anyone else of racism, it's just that the 'Our society, and 'Our country' remarks seem a bit divisive to me.

For the sake of balance, I would like to point out that there are a lot of immigrants who are more than happy to work and contribute if they get half a chance, and by the same token there are a lot of indigenous people who don't want to work and are content to draw benefits.

You talk about people who come to your country, but a lot of the ethnic minorities are third, fourth and fifth generation British.

I'm from an ethnic minority, but I was born here. Your country is also my country.

Integration is often difficult no matter how hard you try. I'm 54 and so far I've managed to integrate into one small village and a poker forum.

Don't get me wrong I'm white, and reasonably well spoken, I can hide my ethnicity and pretend I'm just like everyone else, but that's not integration, that's assimilation.

[MANTIS01]

Red do you get stopped and searched frequently or are you regular folk?

When my vehicles were registered to an address that ended in 'Caravan site', I used to get stopped two or three times a week, often by the same officers. Now that I have an inconspicuous address, it doesn't happen.

When I first came to live here, the local bobby came down and introduced himself to me. He was genuinely a nice chap, we chatted for ages. Just as he was leaving he said "By the way, if anything goes missing in the village, can I come and look in your sheds?".

Every one in the village objected to my being here. ten years later, everyone supported my application to stay. These days, they pat my shoulder and say with a knowing look, "You're OK you are Tom, but you're not really a Gypsy are you?".


Don't get me wrong. I don't blame the police, or the villagers. I blame the media. They have been inciting fear, suspicion and hatred for generations.

They still are.

See that intrigues me. Do you consider yourself less of a Gypsy these days? I would venture that you do not. But because you have put down roots you have acquired a status of trust and support from EVERYBODY around you. So if it were true that regular folk are anti-Gypsy you would STILL attract the same negative attitude that you had at the start, but you do not. You do not even though you are still 100% Gypsy. So if your Gypsiness hasn't changed what has? Quite simply your lifestyle has changed so you have become permanent, integrated and accepted. Before when you lived on a caravan site you got pulled a lot, but then again ANYBODY with a caravan site address would have been pulled a lot. So it's the lifestyle of living on a caravan site which is the negative issue.

The problem with a caravan site is the perception that it is both temporary and inhabited by strangers. This unknown entity will create suspicion and fear by it's very nature. Most regular people will be wary of a large group of temporary strangers because they are the outsiders. Outsiders only until they become integrated and part of the community and then the fear and suspicion subsides. If a hundred Jamaicans rocked up and pitched tents in the field next door how would you feel? Prob a sense of worry about what affect it will have on you and your family and your life. So outsiders can be from any ethnic background.

I could go and live on a caravan site tomorrow but the byproduct of that decision would be getting pulled a lot and people having this wary attitude towards me. Obv this is the Gypsy way of life and it is your right to do as you wish but choosing that lifestyle carries with it the sacrifice of problematic integration into settled communities. I think it's kinda unrealistic to ask people to put aside this fear of the unknown because it is natural and instinctive. As far as humanity goes I do hope this is the case because I'm more comfortable with the notion that people hate the unknown and change more than they hate a person's ethnic origins.

[RED-DOG]

Oh God. Mantis post incoming.....    I'm always scared he'll tear me to pieces.

[kinboshi]

Integration. Why should that be a prerequisite of being an 'acceptable' citizen in this country?

[RED-DOG]

Oh God. Mantis post incoming.....    I'm always scared he'll tear me to pieces.

EDIT: posted this 30 seconds too late.

[MANTIS01]

Integration. Why should that be a prerequisite of being an 'acceptable' citizen in this country?

Integration is not a prerequisite of being an 'acceptable citizen' it's a prerequisite of being accepted by a settled commuinty. It doesn't make you less equal it just means there will be challenges to overcome.

[RED-DOG]

Red do you get stopped and searched frequently or are you regular folk?

When my vehicles were registered to an address that ended in 'Caravan site', I used to get stopped two or three times a week, often by the same officers. Now that I have an inconspicuous address, it doesn't happen.

When I first came to live here, the local bobby came down and introduced himself to me. He was genuinely a nice chap, we chatted for ages. Just as he was leaving he said "By the way, if anything goes missing in the village, can I come and look in your sheds?".

Every one in the village objected to my being here. ten years later, everyone supported my application to stay. These days, they pat my shoulder and say with a knowing look, "You're OK you are Tom, but you're not really a Gypsy are you?".


Don't get me wrong. I don't blame the police, or the villagers. I blame the media. They have been inciting fear, suspicion and hatred for generations.

They still are.

See that intrigues me. Do you consider yourself less of a Gypsy these days? I would venture that you do not. But because you have put down roots you have acquired a status of trust and support from EVERYBODY around you. So if it were true that regular folk are anti-Gypsy you would STILL attract the same negative attitude that you had at the start, but you do not. You do not even though you are still 100% Gypsy. So if your Gypsiness hasn't changed what has? Quite simply your lifestyle has changed so you have become permanent, integrated and accepted. Before when you lived on a caravan site you got pulled a lot, but then again ANYBODY with a caravan site address would have been pulled a lot. So it's the lifestyle of living on a caravan site which is the negative issue.

The problem with a caravan site is the perception that it is both temporary and inhabited by strangers. This unknown entity will create suspicion and fear by it's very nature. Most regular people will be wary of a large group of temporary strangers because they are the outsiders. Outsiders only until they become integrated and part of the community and then the fear and suspicion subsides. If a hundred Jamaicans rocked up and pitched tents in the field next door how would you feel? Prob a sense of worry about what affect it will have on you and your family and your life. So outsiders can be from any ethnic background.

I could go and live on a caravan site tomorrow but the byproduct of that decision would be getting pulled a lot and people having this wary attitude towards me. Obv this is the Gypsy way of life and it is your right to do as you wish but choosing that lifestyle carries with it the sacrifice of problematic integration into settled communities. I think it's kinda unrealistic to ask people to put aside this fear of the unknown because it is natural and instinctive. As far as humanity goes I do hope this is the case because I'm more comfortable with the notion that people hate the unknown and change more than they hate a person's ethnic origins.

This is actually a very insightful post and you make a lot of excellent points.

For the record though, I didn't choose this lifestyle, I was born into it.  

[kinboshi]

Still don't understand why there's this clamour for immigrants (or anyone living here really)  to integrate.

What is 'integration' anyway?

[MANTIS01]

Oh God. Mantis post incoming.....    I'm always scared he'll tear me to pieces.