peeling 3bets: live theory post

[rfgqqabc]

it doesnt matter though?live your x deep, online your x deep.

Less play when short, less room for manoeuvre post, less need for 2/3 barrels etc

[pleno1]

lol misunderstanding me, nerverrmind

[SuuPRlim]

in Live poker you get a much better (or easier I should say) understanding of dynamics and game flow which are pretty crucial when in this spot with all these hands. For the most part though you'll never go far wrong peeling them all.

AQo + TT I would consider 3betting just primarily for value dependent on who it was and how they were playing, AJo I think if I was less comfortable post-flop vs this player I'd 3bet-fold it pretty happily, and as Alex says A2 and K9s might be worth 3beting sometimes depending on the villain, usually the more polarized you think his 3bets are then the more you might want to 3bet those two hands, coupled with how much you think he'll 4bet. So like PLENO says it really is quite villain dependant.

As stu said though, 250+ deep you'll never make a mistake peeling any of those and having it as your default before really grasping the table's flow is prolly ftw.

[PaintingByNumbers]

it doesnt matter if you are online or live.... it matters on who the villain is.

it doesnt matter though?live your x deep, online your x deep.

I agree with this (I think). It is more important to assess the individual variables (Stack Depth, Villain's 3b range etc) than to make generic assumptions (Live or Online).

I would be careful flatting the 3b with all these hands as although the responses in this thread show how difficult it is to 3b OOP, we need to make sure we are going to play very well post flop.
The +EV of flatting AJ,76,K9 and A2 if we play well are outweighed by the -EV if we don't.
AQ and TT are a definite flat for me. 4b I am not keen on but am interested in the opinions of those who would.
AJ is a great 4b bluff candidate, A2 and K9 are ok.

[PaintingByNumbers]

AQo + TT I would consider 3betting just primarily for value dependent on who it was and how they were playing, AJo I think if I was less comfortable post-flop vs this player I'd 3bet-fold it pretty happily, and as Alex says A2 and K9s might be worth 3beting sometimes depending on the villain, usually the more polarized you think his 3bets are then the more you might want to 3bet those two hands, coupled with how much you think he'll 4bet. So like PLENO says it really is quite villain dependant.

I would have said the opposite to this.
If villain has a depolarised range then flatting the 3b rather than 4b (which I assume you mean when you say 3b?), just allows him to dominate us more?
If we 4b a polarised range then he has (assuming it is constituted reasonably correctly) an easy response, but if we 4b a depolarised range then we are going to force him to fold some reasonably valuable hands?

[pleno1]

it doesnt matter if you are online or live.... it matters on who the villain is.

it doesnt matter though?live your x deep, online your x deep.

I agree with this (I think). It is more important to assess the individual variables (Stack Depth, Villain's 3b range etc) than to make generic assumptions (Live or Online).

I would be careful flatting the 3b with all these hands as although the responses in this thread show how difficult it is to 3b OOP, we need to make sure we are going to play very well post flop.
The +EV of flatting AJ,76,K9 and A2 if we play well are outweighed by the -EV if we don't.
AQ and TT are a definite flat for me. 4b I am not keen on but am interested in the opinions of those who would.
AJ is a great 4b bluff candidate, A2 and K9 are ok.

if we're playing vs somebody aggro then extneding our range to 10s and aq is super standard as they will 3b/5b pocket pairs and Ax a tonne, as well as random broadway spews, both of the above hands do extremely well vs an extended 5b range.

[rfgqqabc]

Only 3 people capable of 5 betting and I'm one. Woody is another but not sure he'd go mental post without believing I am. I think you vastly overestimate the play in there games. Its all post, no reason to 3/4 bet when you can keep the fish in. In tougher games this makes a lot of sense tho. Do you balance peel range with premiums if your 4betting ace queen and tens etc?