mr creative

[Honeybadger]

Definitely not tryi I look cool and think comment is a little out of touch.

Sorry Patrick... comment was meant purely as a gentle joke, no malice at all. If I've offended in any way at all I am really sorry. Especially as I think your posts on PHA are extremely good and I love the effort you are clearly putting into developing your poker thought processes.

I particularly love it that you are trying out lots of creative outside-the-box stuff, rather than just taking the safe standard lines. It is inevitable that when you do this you will produce both moments of genius and moments of spew (not saying this particular hand is spew). This is part of the learning curve, and of course eventually there are far more genius moments than spew moments.

The interesting thing is that through taking these creative lines, and realising that a fair few of them don't work, you end up understanding the standard lines on a much deeper level. And at this point when you choose to take a standard line you are not taking it because it is 'standard', you are taking it because you truly understand why it is a good line. In general the standard lines are standard for a reason - they work well. But this is not always the case, and there are plenty of opportunites to gain an edge by exploring beyond these well-trodden paths.

So if you want to donk out five times the size of the pot... do it! It might well be the best possible way to play the hand. And if not, who cares?

Plus it makes you super cool

Seriously, having the imagination and creativity to even consider donking five times the pot IS pretty fxxxing cool 

[TommyD]

Serious question.

Are you trying to make this look like a mis-type, like you accidentally added one too many Sevens on the end?  If so, that might be borderline genius.  And of course borderline genius is also borderline crazy.  Either way if this is the thinking I love it.

[SuuPRlim]

Two Dogs AND a John Black?

man you busy.

[TL900]

Two Dogs AND a John Black?

man you busy.

[pleno1]

Hey stu

Sorry for being touchy, was seriously tilted because there was no game of thrones episodes for me to watch and I wanted moarrrrrrrrrrr. Thanks for te nice words though.

@tommyd yes was a fake misclick

[rfgqqabc]

J

I have 2 dogs.


So weird u think it's me wanting to look cool. I think if we donk flop to a normal size it's a lot more difficult to stack overpaid than both overbettong and c/r simply from a pot to stack ratio thing and as there are so many ugly turn cards, 7 8 9 10 j q that can really escape him nevermind flush run outs etc.

Definitely not tryi I look cool and think comment is a little out of touch.

Results echecked back jj and king came on the river. Ah yeh if he has 10s to qq he can fold on a and k rivers whilst he never does web we overbet

Bottom of his range tho. If he gr checking back jacks and queens does the line make more cos we stack kings and aces. Or would he cbet ace king /go mental when he hits?

[TommyD]

Hey stu

Sorry for being touchy, was seriously tilted because there was no game of thrones episodes for me to watch and I wanted moarrrrrrrrrrr. Thanks for te nice words though.

@tommyd yes was a fake misclick

Well providing you've been donking a lot of flops with this villian on the table and you've been betting a lot of 'silly number' amounts for him to notice then I love it.  His 3bet range is so narrow you're probably getting snap jammed on here.  If I was the villian I'd fall for it, I'd be rubbing my hands with an over pair here thinking 'I've caught you.'

[prettygreen]

Le me get this straight, you call weakly with 22 preflop, hit an amazing flop and bet 4 x pot? And you made it down to the last 2 tables of a scoop? What is wrong with you?

[Mondeoman]

Really really dislike this bet - it smacks of fps to me.  For the simple reason when he doesnt have an overpair (which he wont a lot of the time) he folds.  You prob increase the probabilty you stack him when he has an overpair but thats it.   When he does have an overpair here you're still going to win a sizable pot/possibly stack him by playing the hand more standardly.   
Your aim shouldnt be to stack your opponent as frequently as possible it should be to try and maximise your winnings.  By donking so big you miss all the value v his marginal hands/bluffs.

Donking a standard amount is a viable line if you really think he'll check back overpairs in this spot (which tbh i'm surprised he did).  Id just check raise on the assumption that he bets his overpairs and shouldnt be folding them to a raise.  Also you actually want to give him the oppurtunity to check back with a lot of his range AQ/AK. 
Finally just because this is the first time he's 3 bet doesnt mean he cant have an 89s type hand - which again you want to let c bet/check back.

There's times and places for experimentation - final two tables of a scoop when youve flopped a set in a 3 bet pot isn't one of them.

[pleno1]

i'd say his 3bet range is ak+ and 10s+ btw giving him opr/abi/playing style. vs a normal 3bet range i agree with the above.

i check flop btw, was jsut trying to put the line out. he checked back jacks.

[Nit Tendencies]

I really dislike this play on this board texture. There are just too many non pair hands that we can get value from if we use more conventional sizing all of which snap fold when we do this.

Also, these fake missclicks work much better on dry board textures where we have the pre flop initiative because then we have way more air in our betting range so we get called WAY more often. When we donk here our perceived range isn't that weak anyway (sets, big draws and slow played overpairs), so he's not gonna call off as wide or as often as we want him to.

[pleno1]

I really dislike this play on this board texture. There are just too many non pair hands that we can get value from if we use more conventional sizing all of which snap fold when we do this.

Also, these fake missclicks work much better on dry board textures where we have the pre flop initiative because then we have way more air in our betting range so we get called WAY more often. When we donk here our perceived range isn't that weak anyway (sets, big draws and slow played overpairs), so he's not gonna call off as wide or as often as we want him to.

Yeh but like I said in hand before guy was a not trying to ladder and doesn't have many non pair hands, in normal hand/tournament/spot I'd never lead like this

[MANTIS01]

Played in a shitty live poker tournament last night. Most of the bet sizing was like this.

[SuuPRlim]

Played in a shitty live poker tournament last night. Most of the bet sizing was like this.

MANTIS after a rough start you've literally become one of my favorite people on here now

[cambridgealex]

Yes you're (mantis) hardly recognisable from the guy who posted in that Mantis/Greekstein/Keys thread.

Looking back on that thread do you think you've changed as a person since then Mantis?