Hand from 25k

[DMorgan]

Fold pre obv

[SuuPRlim]

why are his heart combos so strong? he has 3 combos, kj, 78, 89 and even 78 and 89 he may fold pre a decent % of the time whist kj doesnt raise turn 100% of the time.

we have a wider range of hh hands pf and he has a stronger range of hh hands.

Most of his hh combos are blocked but we can habve  / etc wereas he really cant. This makes it a very suicidal spot to take off imo which is why i think hes got it here. the only hand i think he could do this with are  with an ace or a queen and i really dont think he has AKo ever by the turn

[DMorgan]

Yep agree with dave, was gunna put in my original reply that this is a pretty suicidal blow from him if he doesn't have it here imo

[Mondeoman]

I wouldn't be 3 betting the toughest spot at the table who has me covered with a5 off unless it was part of some greater game plan to stop him opening so much or some other such meta game stuff.
Having hit the turn i'm checking back as i dont see many hands calling that dont have you beat.  Maybe pick off a river bluff or let him value cut himself with qx.
Having got raised on the turn i'm snap folding a5 - The turn card is really good for your range so villain should expect you to have a strong hand here so don't see why he'd suddenly decide to take off with some one pair hand that he's bluffing with.  Also he's opened early and called a 3 bet oop so his hand should be much more weighted to suited cards i.e. he shouldnt have a lot of his potential bluffing hands such as kh10x.
Even if he does have say kh10x surely hes more likely to call than raise.

If he's value raising I wouldn't expect him to raise worse than a flush here and when he bets the river im prob calling with a 9 high flush or better.

[Royal Flush]

Obviously im 3betting to stop him opening and metagame stuff- if he is never 4betting me, 3 betting is borderline but fine and if it stops him opening as little as 10% of his range in future then its definitely fine particularly as theres so little chance of me getting cold behind.

I think checking the turn is somewhere between bad and terrible, its what id expect most of the field to do with the hand, but its a card im going to barrel a decent amount of time with a large part of my range, he is going to call with loads of hands that have decent equity and i beat, he is so unlikely to check raise given the table dynamics and gameflow- im far more likely to get value on the turn than on the river and i was 90% sure he just check calls with any sets, 2pairs and maybe even KJ no heart. When he does cr, I just think he is is ridiculously polarised and can barely see any combinations that he plays like this. At the time I even thought he wouldnt play baby flushes this fast, just because he wouldnt even be that comfortable with them given gameflow and the fact im just barreling away.

I really like his line in this particular tournament if he has like KQ QJ etc, ideally with a flush blocker but even so im gonna fold a huge portion of my range on the river even when I get there because table is so soft. Which is why AA=A5 anyway

[Mondeoman]

Agree you're unlikely to get checkraised very often on the turn but what do you expect to get called by?  Theres a lot of hands that have you beat that never fold turn but very few hands you have beat that will call  - Only hands i would expect to call you on turn that you beat are prob broadways that have a heart.  Im all up for thin value but dont think this is a good board for it - think youre over repping your hand.

Also if im villain in this hand i wouldnt expect my opponent to be barreling this turn card that often as
i) it hits my range reasonably well
ii)  For you to be barrelling you'd have to either have a no/low equity type hand (which most good players dont bluff with) or a hand with some sort of showdown value (so again i think they might think youd be more inclined to see a free river).
iii)  When im faced with the 3 bet pre im weigthing my opponents range towards high cards - so again id give them credit for a good hand and am less likely to call down light.

All this means im not calling down light here very often at all which makes betting a5 here on the turn not great.

Do you plan on value betting a brick river?

[T_Mar]

Think in this vacuum id fold  . his hh combos are stronger than yours and i think he just abso has it given the table and current dynamic.

So i agree that specifically here A5 is very similar to AA which would obv make folding the bad flush bad theoretically but i just think he completely nuttered here.

Can I ask why this is theoretically bad pls? ta

[Mondeoman]

Also betting the turn opens you up to getting bluff raised...........

[SuuPRlim]

Think in this vacuum id fold  . his hh combos are stronger than yours and i think he just abso has it given the table and current dynamic.

So i agree that specifically here A5 is very similar to AA which would obv make folding the bad flush bad theoretically but i just think he completely nuttered here.

Can I ask why this is theoretically bad pls? ta

Well actually, this isn't strictly true of this spot at all since I think about it more, but the theory behind what I said initially is the concept of spots where folding can be bad, and these are spots mainly where our opponent gets really easy bluffs, and those are

a) Our Range is capped, meaning the best possible hands available we can't have given the action (note, when I say cant have I mean very likely dont, as anyone can have anything at any time ) and our opponent knows it. We HAVE to call here with the best hands we actually have otherwise he uses the fact he CAN have the nuts, we CANT to auto profit by betting his entire range, and us folding out entire range.

b) spots where we are both uncapped with extremely thin value ranges - this spots are extremely difficult to bluff in because the opponent CAN have "it" but at the same time "it" is such few combo's of hands that one person HAS to be calling wider than "it" some % of the time to avoid giving his opponent a really easy bluff (most usually with some sort of blocker) I guess this is applicable to this spot NEARLY but because we have quite a few legit flush flush hands and are 100% uncapped I don't think it really applies. But cos basically = A5o theoretically it's really bad for us not to call a decent % of the time, I would often randomise this though on the strength of my hand, as in I'd call with and fold A5o barring live reads and dynamic (which we have here hence why I said I'd fold specifically here) as we let him bet profitably with his entire range if our calling range is so thin - Theoretically.

[T_Mar]

Think in this vacuum id fold  . his hh combos are stronger than yours and i think he just abso has it given the table and current dynamic.

So i agree that specifically here A5 is very similar to AA which would obv make folding the bad flush bad theoretically but i just think he completely nuttered here.

Can I ask why this is theoretically bad pls? ta

Well actually, this isn't strictly true of this spot at all since I think about it more, but the theory behind what I said initially is the concept of spots where folding can be bad, and these are spots mainly where our opponent gets really easy bluffs, and those are

a) Our Range is capped, meaning the best possible hands available we can't have given the action (note, when I say cant have I mean very likely dont, as anyone can have anything at any time ) and our opponent knows it. We HAVE to call here with the best hands we actually have otherwise he uses the fact he CAN have the nuts, we CANT to auto profit by betting his entire range, and us folding out entire range.

b) spots where we are both uncapped with extremely thin value ranges - this spots are extremely difficult to bluff in because the opponent CAN have "it" but at the same time "it" is such few combo's of hands that one person HAS to be calling wider than "it" some % of the time to avoid giving his opponent a really easy bluff (most usually with some sort of blocker) I guess this is applicable to this spot NEARLY but because we have quite a few legit flush flush hands and are 100% uncapped I don't think it really applies. But cos basically = A5o theoretically it's really bad for us not to call a decent % of the time, I would often randomise this though on the strength of my hand, as in I'd call with and fold A5o barring live reads and dynamic (which we have here hence why I said I'd fold specifically here) as we let him bet profitably with his entire range if our calling range is so thin - Theoretically.

thanks for clearing that up   

[MANTIS01]

Breaking down the individual hand is all good. But looking at the game overall I'd be pretty disappointed if this was my exit hand. If you 3bet him 8x and he folded 5x, only peeling 3x, seems pretty sweet already + these soft villains. Think when he gets aggro on the turn I would give up rather than get into some suited combo leveling war with CL. Better spots to put ourselves in at this table. Looks like some big clash of the titans cock swinging contest to me.

[Patonius2000]

I don't really understand the turn bet/call. His range smashes this board (esp given he's f3b a few times) and hits our perceived range pretty hard so I think he has a value hand almost always when he c/r turn. B/f turn could be ok (are we ever bluffing some river when he c/c?) but I'm inclined to agree with mondeoman on checking back, and I think I prob bet in these spots more than most.

I'd def be calling river now if I b/c turn because it just assumes he's semi bluffing a shit ton, and he isn't going to semi bluff and check river now unless he is clueless and just clicking buttons. Basically if your turn play is good then so is calling river.

[AlexMartin]

what happened the previous 3 times he peeled?

[mondatoo]

I don't really understand the turn bet/call. Such ridic high variance to take this line and so not necessary, and I know this even when I'm mortal!