Jimmy Carr

[Jon MW]

...
Maybe your comprehension skills are bad?  I used to be a sole trader, but now I am forced by my clients to go down the limited company route.  This is not the same as aggressively trying to pay 1% tax on my income as Jimmy Carr did.  It is about 2 or 3% of the tax rate I paid on my income last year.

You are picking on the wrong target, I really could have paid a lot less tax over the years if I chose to.

and FWIW I think the government are actively trying to close the CD tax loophole too.

I was just talking about the principle, not specifically you.

You were suggesting that some ways of avoiding paying as much tax as you 'should' is just good financial management, whereas other ways were more morally suspect.

Unless you equate money with morality I don't see how this can be the case.

And HMRC are constantly looking at closing all loop holes (unless closing them would lose more than they would gain) - that's why you need the best accountants to keep on finding new ones.

[Jon MW]

And the point of a tax loop hole is that it's either unknown to the HMRC or they haven't closed it yet - the whole of that first sentence is true of, or similar to, any tax avoidance scheme.

If the HMRC know about the tax avoidance strategy and do not close it down by changing the rules then it cannot be a loop hole it must be legitimate tax planning as the a) the rules allow you to do it and b) the HMRC have made attempt to change the rules hence it must be acceptable.

The Jimmy Carr case seems to be a little different, otherwise by your definition virtually everything you do would be a loop hole.

I don't think 'loop hole' is really a technical term and hasn't really got an exact definition. Every tax avoidance measure - is a loop hole, unless you want to define a loop hole in a way you want.

Some of them are more sophisticated and complex than others - but the underlying principle of paying less tax pretty is pretty simple though isn't it?

Either it's good financial management - or it's avoiding paying your fair share

[redarmi]

Tax avoidance will never be closed down by this government because it would alienate a very large number of Conservative party donors.  Similarly if Cameron had been asked about Barlow he would have declined to comment.  It was a cheap shot by Cameron and one which is very likely to backfire on him.

[Mitch]

Great start to the diary mate, looking forward to your work.

subscribed.

[Doobs]

I see a big difference between earning £3m and paying £30k in tax and paying £1m in tax.  Jimmy Carr seems to have accepted that one of these looks bad to a lot of people.

I could never be a lawyer, as though I recognise the right of everyone to have the best defense possible, I think it is more important that the guilty get punished.  One person's good financial management is another's bad financial management etc.  

I guess we all have different moral codes and see things differently.  Anyway best get off for another dose of immorality at the WSOP.
  

[Jon MW]

I see a big difference between earning £3m and paying £30k in tax and paying £1m in tax.
...

Which was precisely my point.

You should pay a million in tax

Paying £990,000 - good financial planning
Paying £30,000 - morally suspect

So what about £800k, £300k, £100k - at what point does it stop being good financial planning and start being morally suspect?

How expensive is your morality?

[jakally]

Great start to the diary mate, looking forward to your work.

subscribed.

The day I start a diary, will be the same day that you go on a diet...........

[Doobs]

I see a big difference between earning £3m and paying £30k in tax and paying £1m in tax.
...

Which was precisely my point.

You should pay a million in tax

Paying £990,000 - good financial planning
Paying £30,000 - morally suspect

So what about £800k, £300k, £100k - at what point does it stop being good financial planning and start being morally suspect?

How expensive is your morality?

I thought your point was paying less tax is paying less tax with the "funny" man rolling around on the floor.  Good to see we now agree, and Jimmy Carr is "morally suspect" if the figures are to be believed.

I wouldn't want to draw the actual line though, but in the Jimmy Carr vs me case I think it is easy enough.

Anyway am in Vegas ffs, best put this thing down.

[Jon MW]

I see a big difference between earning £3m and paying £30k in tax and paying £1m in tax.
...

Which was precisely my point.

You should pay a million in tax

Paying £990,000 - good financial planning
Paying £30,000 - morally suspect

So what about £800k, £300k, £100k - at what point does it stop being good financial planning and start being morally suspect?

How expensive is your morality?

I thought your point was paying less tax is paying less tax with the "funny" man rolling around on the floor.  Good to see we now agree, and Jimmy Carr is "morally suspect" if the figures are to be believed.

I wouldn't want to draw the actual line though, but in the Jimmy Carr vs me case I think it is easy enough.

Anyway am in Vegas ffs, best put this thing down.

So you really do think morality is a question of money?

I always had it down as being whether something was right or wrong - but if you think it can be allocated a sterling value then good for you.

[Acidmouse]

It is also nice to see him get his week in the press as he used to take the royal piss out of people doing exactly this. Avoiding paying tax.

Posh boy, privileged position, highly educated, blames it all on the accountant..gg fuking joker. Moral compass of a thief.

Lets hope the times 'out' one of these a week.

[outragous76]

Hmrc are a disgrace!

Only when you have been on the wrong side of them do you realise just how disgraceful their tactics are!

The fact that the media have picked on 1 person and 1 scheme is laughable! There is only 1 solution, flat rates for everyone, and that will never happen!

Millions of people avoid tax. Anyone using any form of tax avoidance for any amount is in the same moral bracket!

The govt and hmrc are the worst culprits knowingly turning a blind eye as they see fit

[outragous76]

Oh and don't think hmrc don't use rediculous legal loop holes to screw joe tax payer too!

[EvilPie]

One thing's for sure. Any rich people who didn't know about this legal loophole certainly do now and they'll be having some pretty serious words with their accountants as to why they aren't in it as well.

[neeko]

There is a very simple solution that is fair to everyone - publish the amount everyone pays in tax.

With public transparency - there is no secrecy.

[DMorgan]

Playing poker for a living is tax avoidance?

Discuss