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Author Topic: Another interesting ruling from WSOP  (Read 7302 times)
david3103
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« on: July 15, 2012, 08:53:26 AM »

Gaelle Baumann opened for a min-raise to 60,000 from under the gun, and the action folded to Andras Koroknai, who moved all in from the small blind. Gavin Smith folded from the big blind, and thinking that the action was completed, Koroknai mucked his hand.

When he realized his mistake, he pulled back one of his cards, but the other was irretrievable. A floorperson was called to the table, and the dealer explained what had happened. Tournament Director Dennis Jones was called over to make the ruling, and upon hearing the story, he stood silently for half a minute.

Smith, who was standing next to him, began laughing at the difficulty of the decision.

After a moment for thought, Jones informed the table that Koroknai would have to forfeit 60,000 chips to Baumann, but that he wouldn't be eliminated completely.

"Really?" Smith blurted.

Baumann was also confused with the ruling, so Jones pulled out his iPhone and called Vice President of the World Series of Poker Jack Effel. After a two-minute conversation, Jones hung up, and announced to the table that the original ruling would stand.

"You're not losing your tournament life," Jones told Koroknai.

In Jones' explanation to the table, he cited the "integrity of the tournament" as the major factor in the decision.

According to Smith, Baumann showed two kings.

http://uk.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2012-world-series-of-poker/event-61-no-limit-hold-em-main-event/
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NigDawG
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 09:57:43 AM »

opens the door for a huge angleshoot

shit you called? well i mucked my hand when the bb folded...
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Christopher Brammer
jackinbeat
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 11:23:57 AM »

The players at fault, he mucked, after announcing all in. Strictly he loses everything, but the first rule of TDA is about the TD having the right to rule in favour of whatever is best for the fairness of the game. Pretty sick if he's knocked out here, depends on the situation, but he's lucky that's for sure.
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Doobs
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 02:20:57 PM »

I assume he mucked before the fella with the kings had done anything.  So don't see how this can be used as an angle shoot.  I think the ruling is fine in the circumstances though obv the kings fella isn't going to be happy.  Way better ruling than the other thread
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pokerfan
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 02:26:11 PM »

I assume he mucked before the fella with the kings had done anything.  So don't see how this can be used as an angle shoot.  I think the ruling is fine in the circumstances though obv the kings fella isn't going to be happy.  Way better ruling than the other thread

Ha, the KK fella is a chick.
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Doobs
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 02:29:35 PM »

I assume he mucked before the fella with the kings had done anything.  So don't see how this can be used as an angle shoot.  I think the ruling is fine in the circumstances though obv the kings fella isn't going to be happy.  Way better ruling than the other thread

Ha, the KK fella is a chick.

Durr.  I wouldn't mind but I actually watched her getting interviewed on espn this morning and hadn't clicked. 
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dik9
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 05:01:08 PM »

Confused as this is a standard ruling, the difficulty would be if  Beaumann had said call before the cards were mucked.
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jackinbeat
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 12:00:41 PM »

Confused as this is a standard ruling, the difficulty would be if  Beaumann had said call before the cards were mucked.

Not sure it's quite so standard.
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34sooted5betshove
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 02:34:51 PM »

that ruiling is totally wrong think. up to the player to keep up with the action.

and defo at that level
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dik9
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 06:15:01 PM »

I agree that it is the players responsibility, however no where in the op does it say the bet was called. The mistake seems to have been noticed before Beaumann makes the call. What you seem to be implying is that Beaumann wins the pot without risking putting her chips on the line to make the call. Koroknai has forfeited the call but receives the last uncalled bet back.
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owen1923
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 06:22:47 PM »

I think the ruling was wrong, it may be harsh but the person suffering the biggest loss of equity in the hand was the original raiser, and she had done nothing wrong.

Worst case he should have lost 90k, he was raising so a min raise should have been enforced.
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dik9
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 06:23:54 PM »

Even though it hadn't been called?

The original raiser has already won a called raised pot without going to showdown, how much equity do you want?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 06:25:38 PM by dik9 » Logged

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owen1923
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 06:27:13 PM »

Her action had been taken away from her, she wasn't given the opportunity to make the call.

It may appear fair to the guy making the mistake, but it was the complete opposite to the utg.
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dik9
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 06:28:39 PM »

Her action had been taken away from her, she wasn't given the opportunity to make the call.

It may appear fair to the guy making the mistake, but it was the complete opposite to the utg.

She was also not given the opportunity to fold to the all-in.
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jackinbeat
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2012, 06:47:29 PM »

This is a very tough ruling, if they're not forced to be all in with no cards (their own fault), then the player should maybe be given a round penalty for failing to keep up with the game. This way they are shown to be penalised, and at least will follow the game more closely in future.

Just making him pay off the small amount from the lady UTG seems open to angle shooting possibilities. What if he had seen the reaction of the UTG limper, and decided to much his hand quickly, not totally impossible.
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