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Author Topic: Chess thread  (Read 340891 times)
Tal
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« Reply #570 on: November 13, 2012, 09:07:55 PM »

That Tal game is out of this world IMO. Modern games are intense and full of counterattacks, but this was over 50 years ago and is three games rolled into one.

I used to have a 2.5hour lesson on a Saturday morning with my coach. We'd spend about an hour of that each week on a master game (anything from the years 1880 to 2010). Tal v Panno took us about 4 hours over two lessons. It was gruelling stuff.

Take any position from about 10 moves in where it is White to move. Then create a list of possible moves, trim away the ones it obviously won't be, then start wading through the tactics. It is mind blowing.

I really wouldn't recommend going too heavily into it. Consider it like reading James Joyce.

It is nevertheless fun to play through and see how Tal changes tack at stages to secure the win. If you are going to pick a Tal game to play through in more detail, I'd just recommend a different one Smiley
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Tal
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« Reply #571 on: November 13, 2012, 09:17:27 PM »

In the same year, Tal played this game, which is much easier on the eye: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1139428

Bobotsov was a decent player but a player of our hero's level would expect to do well against him. Tal played a King's Indian Defence, which isn't popular at the highest level these days but is still common everywhere else. Bobotsov plays the sharpest response, called the Sämisch Variation, which he made still sharper by castling queen side, so the battle was on to see who would expose whose king first.

Have some fun with it by playing a game of "Guess the move". You can press the > button then to see how you got on.

This is a classic Tal game: absolutely relentless.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #572 on: November 13, 2012, 09:20:04 PM »

oh lol I mean i'm just watching it play out in the replayer, then go back 5 moves because I get confused and I try and see what general idea they have, where they are aiming to strengthen their position etc.  

From memory the things that confused me initially, were the set of rook moves from black around 14-17. I couldn't see a purpose, though quite blatantly I have no idea what could be better ldo.


I watched it all the way through the first time, and there was some stuff later on that I was completely clueless about, but thought i'd not understand any so just trying to go back through it not particularly in detail but those rooks moves really confused me.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 09:21:49 PM by titaniumbean » Logged
Tal
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« Reply #573 on: November 13, 2012, 09:34:23 PM »

Rook moves? You def looking at this game?

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1139398

A characteristic of Tal's games was that he liked to jump his rooks off. This is a chess expression. It means moving the pawn in front of the rook forward, then bringing the took up and swinging it across for an attack. This is now accepted in today's game but was novel in the late fifties
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 09:50:12 PM by Tal » Logged

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« Reply #574 on: November 13, 2012, 09:36:53 PM »

yup yup the one from rsq question in 58.


The moves around 13-19 where black moves his rooks up the right, but it doesn't seem to achieve anything. I dunno i'm pants.
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Tal
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« Reply #575 on: November 13, 2012, 09:42:59 PM »

By rooks do you mean knights?

In the game, Panno plays a reasonably standard variation against the Ruy Lopez opening and the intention is to attack on the queenside (the right as he sees it). He puts both of his knights there as they can help get in behind the white defences. That's a pretty standard idea in this opening.

As you see, Tal allows that to happen and makes an incredible set of sacrifices in the process.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 09:47:04 PM by Tal » Logged

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« Reply #576 on: November 13, 2012, 09:50:31 PM »

oh ffs

i'll just never return to this thread.


I blame it on the severe bout of man flu i'm suffering. Ie I sniffed 4 times today.



what a pleb. mass apologies.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #577 on: November 13, 2012, 09:51:06 PM »

By rooks do you mean knights?

In the game, Panno plays a reasonably standard variation against the Ruy Lopez opening and the intention is to attack on the queenside (the right as he sees it). He puts both of his knights there as they can help get in behind the white defences. That's a pretty standard idea in this opening.

As you see, Tal allows that to happen and makes an incredible set of sacrifices in the process.

yeh this was the next section I didn't understand because it felt like we were giving up too much. thanks Smiley
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Tal
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« Reply #578 on: November 13, 2012, 09:53:08 PM »

Ah that would explain it!

Hopefully I've answered your question anyway.

I play something similar as Black for the first dozen moves, as it happens.
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« Reply #579 on: November 13, 2012, 09:57:35 PM »

god i'm so tilted about how much of an idiot I can manage to be. I surprise even myself lol
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Tal
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« Reply #580 on: November 13, 2012, 10:11:52 PM »

god i'm so tilted about how much of an idiot I can manage to be. I surprise even myself lol

Not at all. I managed to recommend a horse on Tips for Tikay a while back on the basis of its form at a course it had never actually run at before. THAT was embarrassing. You asked a good question but got a word wrong.
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« Reply #581 on: November 13, 2012, 10:35:53 PM »

god i'm so tilted about how much of an idiot I can manage to be. I surprise even myself lol

Not at all. I managed to recommend a horse on Tips for Tikay a while back on the basis of its form at a course it had never actually run at before. THAT was embarrassing. You asked a good question but got a word wrong.

that was probably better than most of the others lol
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Tal
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« Reply #582 on: November 14, 2012, 08:38:17 AM »


The Kings Tournament came to a dramatic dénouement yesterday, with two active draws leaving the table looking like this:



...which, as is customary, meant a playoff. Although each player had a set amount of time to complete their moves, there is popularity these days for what is called the Fischer time control, which involves adding seconds to a player's remaining time whenever he makes a move. In this case, three seconds. This means that, if a player gets short of time, he can make moves quickly and not lose on the clock.

Remember that if you run out of time, as long as your opponent isn't left with a bare king (in other words, as long as he theoretically has enough material left to checkmate you, including a pawn, which can queen), you lose.

Topalov fell foul of this and that cost him the tournament, as Ivanchuk lifted the trophy.


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Tal
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« Reply #583 on: November 14, 2012, 08:38:50 AM »



Winner winner Chucky dinner
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« Reply #584 on: November 14, 2012, 08:42:13 AM »

Only two decisive games in the whole comp could be seen as there having been a boring tournament but it is more a reflection of the missed chances that have come and gone in a few games. Caruana didn't get into top gear and Topalov missed a couple of opportunities to take top spot.

In the end, this was Ivanchuk's tournament.

Next stop for us all is London, although none of these four will be there.
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